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IMHO, This new O&G book is splendid. The new choppa and Waaagh! rules are particular favorites of mine. But I'm having some problems with the Goblins (as usual. grotty little wankers)
1) Wolf Chariots: No more 2 for 1 special. Is there any reason to have one now? Sure extra movement is nice, but the boar chariot can hit harder and stay tougher. I used to love the Goblin Chariots for that reason, as I could combine them both to hit EXTRA hard or hit two different units at once.
2) While not goblins per say, they are smaller than orcs. What happened to the snotlings? Are they unbreakable anymore? because it seems to me that no matter how stubborn they are, at ld of 4 and with THEIR attack power, they'll only last as long as one break test.
3) While I love the idea of terrain not being as much of a problem, it seems to me that spider riders are kinda cheesy. What really annoys me though is that wolf riders seem to have no purpose anymore. They only advantage they have is that they can wear light armor (and lose their fast cav) and that they are a bit faster, which isn't as good as being able to ignore terrain I think.
Does anyone else agree with me? Can anybody else think of a useful purpose for these units?
(Just on a side note, does anyone know if a gigantic spider rider model is going to be released? More importantly, what is the base size of gigantic spider?)
I guess the gigantic spider is gonna be like the Great cave squig, you'll just have to improvise.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
I can see how you find wolf riders somewhat obsolescent. But they do have shooting, right? And greater movement.
Do spider riders also get spears? I can't remember.
But I think having lots of spider units is a great tactic. Say three or four of the annoying buggers. Personally, I don't find them cheesy. I think they are very characterful and useful, but also not overpowered as they're easy to kill.
(just to clarify, both wolf riders and spider riders can get the same equipment EXCEPT for light arm, which as i mentionend drops the fast cav)
well it is certainly true that they are easy to kill, but then again so are wolf riders. And in all fairness, they aren't THAT cheesy. My biggest problem is that I want every unit in an army book to fulfill some purpose, and I feel that wolf riders no longer server any purpose, since spider riders can do it better. Plus, I was really fond of the common gobbo/wolf relationship since it was really cool. At heart, i guess i'm just a fluffhead :sleep:
Except that spiders come with spears as part of their original point cost, hence being one more point that wolf boyz.
Wolf riders are by no means obsolete, with their fast cavalry ability they can still run around most scenery anyway. I tend to use the wolf boyz for hunting warmachines and the spiders lurking in some scenery waiting for flank charges.
Snotlings do suck a bit as their leadership is so poor.
Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts
I have some mixed feelings about the revisions to the Greenskins book. In many cases, it seems as if GW has gone back to Ed 5 troops prices. Some of it seems like change for the sake of change and not all of it is good. Many more significant concerns are;
- Snotlings and pump wagons are stubborn at LD 4. Oxymoron perhaps. I found them invalueable in the last two editions. They have gone from tar pits to tissue paper troops. I guess new tactics are in order but I can't see using them often anytime in future.
- Goblins have gone up in price by 1 pt. Not the end of the world perhaps but it adds up. When you start adding options, you might as well bring Orcs (who are great with the choppa improvement). The effect will be less common goblins which is a shame. These guess usually came at the bottom of the pile when it came to all of the other options, especially compared to NGs. This doesn't help their case.
- Cavalry is very expensive and your really have to think hard about bringing Big'uns. With comparatively low WS, AS and Str compared to most other cavalry, they should be cheaper.
- Black Orc characters have lost their edge. I can understand that they wanted to remove them as the auto choice for characters without having them count as a 2 for 1 choice. However now all you get is +1 WS for 15 more points. And D6 Str 5 hits on your own unit could suck at the wrong moment, especially against cavalry. Black Orcs no longer stand out from normal Orc characters.
Good points, MKS. I hadn't considered them.
I don't play O&G, so I don't know the army inside and out like I do my WEs or VC. Also I really can't fairly compare the new book to the old. All I can say is that from an outsider's perspective I like the new book and think it's generally an improvement.
It seems to balance itself out well, and the Waagh! business is really nasty, especially when a great shaman rolls for the spell, too.
The special characters seem like real bargains, and I wonder if they're underpriced. I.e. Grimgor, what a beast!
The Greenskins are my first army so perhaps I am too close to the issue. That being said, having seen three editiions thus far (5 to 7) I am acutely aware of the escalation process that happens form book to book. For ed 6 and 7, Empire and Orc were first off the line. In my opinion, the Orcs have not really done so well over all. There have been some improvements with the choppa rule and the addition of spider riders but the point increases for goblins and cavalry and the degradtion on of snotlings overall does not seem to be much of an improvement. Normal goblins are taking a bit of a a hit and i doubt you will see much of them in the future which is a shame. In addition, the new models are not really much to shout about. The new characters are nice but we could have made these
from the exisiting boxes. What I would have like to have seen were plastic savage orcs (core). Moreover, the we archers are metal. They are not exactly your best troops. Who is going to shell out cash for these boyz? From my understanding, the Empire infantry will see a points reductions. I have this army as well and I am a big fan of infantry (for many reasons). That being said, it is a sad day when any army outnumbers an Greenskin army.
Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts
With regards to wolf riders vs spider riders, their superior movement (4" more on the march) makes them very useful for destroying fleeing units. In this edition, broken units are destroyed automatically if they flee through the enemy. Wolf boys are great for this tactic.