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After just deciding to start Orcs and Goblins I was reading the codex when my eye fell on the seemingly useless Snotlings and Pump Wagon. With a such a crappy LD the stubborn rule really doesnt seem like much of a consalation prise.
I'v been thinking about how these little fellas couls still serve some perpose. Im not sure if Im right with this (still fairly new to actualy playing the game in general) but cant the General lend his LD to unit that are close by? A new (abet very specific) role has amerged for them to play. They would work exelently as a screen that is placed infront of, say a big unit of black orcs with lord. Now their a stubborn screen with a LD of 9! Also when it come ot combat, they're going to hold better than any other unit in the orc arsenal! This could keep has an expensive unit alive and also allow the a tasty flank charge if they wanted! Pump Wagons could go a similar route, rumbling along side your beefy unit, to flank charge once combat starts.
Could this tactic work? Or have I missed something vital?
the snotlings have to choose whether to use their stubborn 4LD or the generals LD . the stubborn doesnt upgrade with generals LD. the tactic of having them in front of black orcs can work to keep them from combat until they reach there main unit to fight. what i feel is the purpose of snotlings are to keep precious units from combat....... charge flanks. as for the pump wagon it is fairly usless its just a downgrade of a chariot and a waste of a rare choice i would rather take a giant much more affective.
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i kind of like pump wagons, theyre not great obviously but 2 for one rare makes them much more viable, its like when im writing a list o i have just under 100 points left and a rare choice hmm may as well take 2 pump wagons... sticking them together, (if they both make the needed rolls) will plough through units quite nicely.
lets agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours are
I have two old pump wagons. They are so much cooler than the current model. So I use them now due to that and my army theme.
But they certainly have their uses. Grinding up that lone character is always great, and hitting units with a crappy save is where they excell. Plus they are dirt cheap!
I was thinking that Pump Wagons would make great support units, rumbling along the side of a big unit could have some big advantages. I was think that the best way to use them would be like Empire detachments, Im planning on running two this way with a big block of black orcs, getting to negate the enemies ranks and a bonus 4d6 hits would almost always mean trouble for the enemy. The problem I see with them is that they'll just die after charging, and if they get charged they just... well die.
Good idea rolly, but it won't work exactly to plan. The pump wagons are less than unit strength 5, so they wont negate ranks. Otherwise, i nice 2d6 hits in the side is quite nice.
so what exactly is the point of having a stubbon 4 leadership?
Correct me where I am wrong in this stuff as I a am not an expert but the way I see it is In 6th Ed. the snotlings were unbreakable I used to play High elves and I seem to remember having to chop them for three turns after my silverhelms stupidly charged them.
With the 7th ed rules if the snotlings were unbreakable like a swarm they would take extra wounds for combat res, I am glad that isn't true but now you have to make a check if they lose a combat, which they WILL in any combat they are in,
they can still use a generals leadership within 12 but that wouldn't be under the stubborn rule
so it sounds to me like the orcs are saying we know that the snotlings will lose the combat by five so a generals leadership is irrelevant
so it being said that they will lose any fight they are in what are they good for at 20 points per base.
Most I can see is they block Los from missle troops for your other units and when they flee from combat nobody cares. and they are better screeners in that they dont have to take an animosity check which could hold up your line like a thin unit of boyz with sheilds would.
for some reason I feel like I want to put these dudes in my army but I can't get a grip on the tactica for it.
Yeah, the 4 stubborn sucks, but that just means their role has shifted. Snotling bases cant take units on their own now, thats for sure, so I use them for flank charges. If the opponent hits my unit of anything, there is a unit strength 6 unit waiting there to jack him next turn, and if he goes for the snotlings or tries to shoot them, well thats just a big waste. So it still is going to be a while before I really understand completely what they are for, but I think I'm on the right track. And in terms of fluff, it makes more sense to me. Instead of being far on the flank stopping giants or chaos knights, the little buggers are hugging their larger cousins, to cowardly to fight a unit on their own, but when da big ones are doing the job for them, of course they try to join in.
I participated in a rouge trader event this weekend and I went ahead and took 4 bases of snotlings in my army, although I don't think I played very well with them they did manage to participate in various ways. game one the Green Knight popped out of a rock and terrorized my Spear chukka unit, my brave (albiet stupid) little fellas mobbed him and although couldn't hurt him, the knight (disguestedly) phased away next round and the crew rallied, came back to the machine and started shooting again.
Game two the little fellas got steam rollered by 8 TK heavy cav with a liche priest, I took off the bases not touching the Priest as casualties and my 3 attacks back killed the undead wizard before I was crushed.
Game three I lost a batte vs Lizard terradons, I passed my LD 4 check and the terradon had to hit and run, it accidently landed on a squabbling bunch of spiders and they all died. sweet.
I will keep you posted on their future sucesses
Last edited by Killingblow; January 26th, 2007 at 19:45.
The pump wagon has a very specific role in the current O&G army good. First, you have to consider for your points what you get. For the low cost you get a chance of 2D6 impact hits. If that hits a flank you pretty much don't have to worry about attacks back. Also they are best used in pairs to counter charge. IE you flank a unit of Big uns and they take a charge. They will most likely hold, you then hope you roll high enough for a flank charge.
Also they are great for running along a side of Boar boys and protecting their flank. Consider a army with 4 pump wagons, 4 blocks for boys and a couple chariots. What does your opponent focus on? If 2 of the pump wagons unit they will kill most units and beat them in combat res.
Lastly they are stubborn on a 4 and your general cannot raise their leadership as they are testing on an unmodified leadership at all times. So why is this good? Its actually good for hitting a units really hard, and then running away instead of getting stuck in, most likely your opponent will chase and your drawing them out from the main line and exposing their flanks. If this tactic fails you only lost 40 pts instead of a whole lot more. Plous by taking 4 as rares your still taking 4 pretty fast untis for under 200 pts that take up 2 rares.
Not bad? Try using them in conjunction with characters mounted on chariots
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