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Thread: Unit Sizes

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    Member Slylizard's Avatar
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    Unit Sizes

    Hi, very very new to fantasy, and I have definately decided on going with the green horde.

    Now, I'm writing up my first list and have been looking here for inspiration/subliminal suggestions.

    The only thing I can't really find any sort of uniformity on is the unit sizes.

    So in short my question is. What size units do you take (include front size and number of ranks too) and why?

    “You know wot the chain o’ command is? It's the chain I go get and bash you wiv 'till you understand who's in ruttin' command round here.”

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    Orcs I tend to use 20-25 with a frontage of 5. This is to maximise the rank bonus for combat resolution and allow to still have a decent number of models hitting in the front rank. Also if you go for 25 you will get the extra combat res from outnumbering.

    Black orcs 15-20. Frontage of 5. Black orcs are a lot more hitty than normal orcs so you can get away with fewer of them (they also cost a load of points).

    Gobbos 30-40. Goblins are not great at fighting so you need more models in the front rank to increase your chances of kills. They also rely more on outnumbering the enemy to win combat.

    Just my 2 pence worth.
    Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts

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    Member Slylizard's Avatar
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    No, that's really helpful.

    I was already headed in that exact direction, so it's quite nice to have my gut feeling confirmed.
    “You know wot the chain o’ command is? It's the chain I go get and bash you wiv 'till you understand who's in ruttin' command round here.”

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    Good, I was just about to post this question. Most of the lists I've come up with have 25-30 naked orcs (choppa only).

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    Personally, I prefer to keep unit sizes small. 15 for orcs, 20 (maybe 25) for gobbos. More units is better. Its no good having extra ranks if they get nullified by flank chargers. The extra units prevent this. And if you want to get +1 for outnumbering charge with multiple units. Same goes if you want more goblins in the front ranks to cause extra damage, multiple units.

    I find people seem to suggest that it depends on the size of the units that your opponent uses. My experience is that this game is won in the movement phase, if you have more units to move you have more chance of winning.
    Just my 2c...

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    Member BluPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderEmpire View Post
    Personally, I prefer to keep unit sizes small. 15 for orcs, 20 (maybe 25) for gobbos. More units is better. Its no good having extra ranks if they get nullified by flank chargers. The extra units prevent this. And if you want to get +1 for outnumbering charge with multiple units. Same goes if you want more goblins in the front ranks to cause extra damage, multiple units.

    I find people seem to suggest that it depends on the size of the units that your opponent uses. My experience is that this game is won in the movement phase, if you have more units to move you have more chance of winning.
    Just my 2c...
    Wow, I'd hate to roll your animosity checks. That's more units to checks with and more units to squabble. Especially if they are standing in front of another unit.

    The other problem I see is command groups. I NEVER gimp on full command upgrades, and setting up smaller units means you have to pay for it each time.

    More power to you if it works though.

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    Aye, different horses for different courses. Really its about personal playing style and the habits of your gaming circles. In terms of command groups thopugh, with multiple units you don't need the full whack each time. Only one banner per combat counts, so only 1/2 or 1/3 of your units need them. Champions are way overpriced for an extra attack, so I never take them. Musicians are the only upgrade that always brings back its points. Most of the time the opponent also has a musician so drawn combats are still drawn combats. However, +1 to rally is worth every point.

    As for animosity, why people think more units is bad I fial to see. The worse outcome is your unit does nothing. Now just compare... a unit of 40 goblins stands still and gets shot to pieces by enemy fire, is prone to be charged (possibly in the flank) etc or... 1 unit of 20 goblins stands and does nothing whilst the 2nd unit keeps the enemy on their toes...

    When you start to multiply this across your army, the effect is staggering. The law of averages plays in your favour, not against. Of course, this is a warhammer table, so any who expects the dice to live upto their statisical expectency has never played a game before

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    Champions also get a +1 strength bonus. 2 strength 5 attacks is nothing to sneeze at.

    As for animosity, why people think more units is bad I fial to see. The worse outcome is your unit does nothing. Now just compare... a unit of 40 goblins stands still and gets shot to pieces by enemy fire, is prone to be charged (possibly in the flank) etc or... 1 unit of 20 goblins stands and does nothing whilst the 2nd unit keeps the enemy on their toes...
    The biggest problem I see with animosity is that when playing so many units, you have to set up in waves. And if the unit in front of another squabbles, the ones in the back are stuck doing nothing that turn.

    Note: I am not saying that your wrong, just giving my opinions on the matter.

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    True, the orc champion does get a little more of an upgrade than the standard +1 A, and as such I would consider taking one if I thought the need arises (such as for a key hammer unit). Still, I wouldn't throw them in everywhere.

    As for setting up in waves, just go back to the 40/20 argument. 40 night goblins fail their animosity and do nothing / 20 night goblins fail their animosity and do nothing, 20 are ok and may, or may not be, stuck behind the first unit. You've either gained on what you had or are just where you were before.

    Its all about how much risk you like to take. Big units- some turns your entire army does nothing, some turns its all okay. Small units- most turns, 1/6 of your army does nothing, 5/6 plods on. (refer to my early post for a disclaimer on a warhammer table actually representing the rules of probability)

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    if you use smaller units of night goblins you can stick 3 fanatics in each one.
    Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee!

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