Welcome to Librarium Online!
so i'm looking to built a heavily shooting-oriented imperial navy fleet. two lunars, a gothic, and a dominator should make up the backbone of my fleet. now, the big question here is, is it better to get 2 mars battlecruisers, an emperor, or two dictators for ordinance cover? personally, i'm leaning towards the mars ships, since i get 2 nova cannons out of the deal. however, the emperor has a handy +1ld, as well as 8 squadrons to fire off. dictators aren't that attractive to me, since they lack the sheer numbers an emperor can throw and the firepower a mars brings along with its birds. what dictators do let me do, though, is bring along another squadron of cobras, which, if the enemy doesn't notice them, can fire snapshot torpedoes down an enemy line and really ruin somebody's day.
also, a quick rules question: regarding fighter/bomber waves, how do they work with regards to ordinance reload? say, for example, if i have an emperor class, can i fire off a wave of 2 fighters and 2 bombers in one turn, then roll for reload ordinance? just wondering, because it seems to make launching individual squadrons kind of useless...
Take the Emperor,
I also suggets changing the Lunars into a Dominator and a Gothic.
Yes you can launch a mix of fighters and bombers. Run down the turret suppression rules at the SG site for how fighters in a bomber wave work when attacking an enemy vessel.
whats that horizon? do you actually mean to tell me theyve included the fighter suppression thing in the rules somewhere, officially? ive never found it.
too many, gave up counting. rough estimates of 10% even steven, 25% omg i lostorz! and 65% PWNED NEWBS! ^^
<Tossy> Crons are freaking invincible!
As for carrier cover, the Emperor may be a good choice. It's very good at being a carrier - its advanced leadership should help you to make those reload ordnance rolls and it has the same bay capacity as two Mars class Battlecruisers for about 2/3 of the points cost. Also, while the Emperor isn't going to blow the Planetkiller apart on its own, it is capeable of unloading a reasonable amount of pain with its Weapon Batteries.
On the down side, I assume that you will be using the carrier capacity of these ships to defend your shooty fleet from enemy ordnance - obviously, your Emperor could only be in one place at once - so if your fleet is spread out, you may not be able to protect all of your ships. So if this was your main aim, it may be better to use the two Mars'. This would also give you some lances and TWO Nova Cannons! The weapons boasted by the Mars are nothing to be sniffed at. The inclusion of the two Mars ships would also offer your fleet better cover, as you could spread them out.
So - you can either get a big, sexy Battleship and slightly hamper yourself tactically, or you can get two expensive and slightly boring Battlecruisers and retain the upper hand, right? Well how's this for an off the wall idea - have you considered the Oberon class Battleship and a Dictator? The Oberon is a jack of all trades (yes and a master of none! ) and it would augment your broadside firepower nicely, bringing lances and long range weapons batteries to the party. Obviously, it has all the inherrant hardness of a Battleship and it also has the same carrying capacity as the Mars. Also, the inclusion of the Dictator will give you a numerical advantage and good fleet cover - just like the two Mars class ships. And best of all, this combination would only be 15pts more expensive than the to Mars', so if you had the points to spare for them, the odds are you will be able to afford this combination too.
Go on - you know you want a tactically sound Battleship!
As for the reload - you can only launch as many ordnance counters as you have bays for, although (as far as I know) you can reload as soon as possible after the counters are launched - you just can't launch more until there is space.
Hope all this helps!
awesome, thanks chappy!
hmm...oberon. that's in the 'to cleanse the stars' supplement, yes? it sounds cool, and it would also let me pile in a third lunar (3x lunar, 1x gothic, 1x dominator, 1x dictator). it doesn't look all that effective, though, considering it's essentially a dictator and a lunar mashed together.
i plan on keeping my fleet together for essentially the entire battle, with bombers and torpedoes leading. charge into 30cm range with my cruisers and open fire with torpedoes and broadsides, while whichever carriers i take stay at range and pump out waves of bombers. if i take an emperor, it has to sit in the middle of the formation and launch bombers to both sides, while if i take 2 mars, they can each hold down a flank or group in the centre, as well as giving me 3 nova cannons in total.
another possibility is to take cobras and use their s2 torpedoes as interception for ordinance...how does that sound? that'd let me take a retribution or an apocalypse, too
Cool man, it's a good tactic and your fleet looks well suited to it.
If you plan to hang back with the carriers and use them to launh bombers, I would probably suggest the Emperor, as it will be able to do that nicely and provide some long range support with its rather heavy weapons batteries.
It'd probably be a better option than the Mars class ships for the tactics you'll be using, as you won't want to be firing two nova canons when your Lunars are trading broadsides! It'll also be cheaper.
Of course, if you wanted to alter your tactics slightly, you could still use the Oberon as a line breaker - sending it in with the bulk of your fleet to maximise the broadside potential and launching the bombers at close range. Of course, you're right - the Oberon isn't the most effective Battleship ever, but it is one of the most fun! The lance/weapon batteries/launch bays combination makes it rather versatile and able to fulfil a number of roles within the fleet. Plus that extra Lunar cruiser is NEVER a bad idea! Personally, I always try to use at least 3 - they are pretty sexy!
But yeah - in keeping with the tactics you'd like to use, I'd suggest the Emperor as the most effective and the Oberon/Extra Lunar as the most fun!
Edit - I've always found Cobra's to be a bit disappointing in a defensice role, but that doesn't mean that you will! So I won't put them down at all. And on a far more important note - you seem very committed to using a Battleship. That's what I .like to see! I don't care what anyone says - there's nothing cooler than a mssive Battleship destroying things with a single broadside. And for anyone who tells you different - pure belief in the capeabilities of said battleship will carry you through places mathhammer fears to tread!
Hope it all works out for you.
Cobra's good, take the Widowmaker upgrade.
The Oberon is actually no good as a linebreaker with its 5+ prow.
I’m not saying the Oberon is a bad ship because of the things you listed but I think it is much better as support ship, going on an abeam line early on (for +20pts I’ll let you upgrade its 45cm batteries to the original 60cm range). When you go head on you waste those lances and batteries on the broadsides. Where as the Emperor would only waste Batteries.
Both ships fit better in the role of going abeam and supporting cruisers from long range.
If you would come at me I would use weapon batteries on your Oberon, lances upon your 6+ cruiser prows.
This immediately reduces the effectiveness of the Oberon abeam. While I totally agree that that's where the Emperor belongs, I find the Oberon to be devastating once it's amongst the enemy ships - if the opponents fleet is screening with escorts, the Oberon can quickly deploy assault boats against them. If they have a cruiser line, you can launch bombers at them, in addition to the vast amount of weapons you can fire into them.
While actually approaching the line, you've got 10 FP worth of weapons batteries to fire as you go, in addition to using AAF. With an Oberon coming at you at that speed, firing as it goes, screened by escorts and supported by cruisers, you'd better have an amazing amount of weapon batteries and some seriously lucky dice. Augment with Cobra's nipping rond the flank of an enemy fleet and I've never seen anything stand up to it for long.
Of course, it's all dependent on the fleet you're facing - I haven't used the Oberon for a few games as I've just got a new Mechanicus Ark, which is my favourite new toy.