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So, I'm quite new to BFG, and I'm gonna be playing this weekend. Looking things over and reviewing various tactica, I've come up with two lists:
Overlord BC with Turret Upgrade
Dauntless LC (Torpedo)
3x Sword FF
3x Cobra FF
or, the BB version:
Fleet Admiral w/ 1 extra reroll
2x Dauntless LC (Torpedo)
4x Sword FF
The first one, I would run all 4 capitals as one squadron, screen them with the Swords, and sent the Cobras out as a wolf pack.
The second one, I still put the capitals as one squadron, but now I'm unsure if I'd run one screen of 4x swords or 2 of 2xSwords.
And I'm a bit concerned about the fleet admiral... nearly every list I've seen posted on the internet uses him - but is Ld8 enough when you need to reload ordnance? This squadron puts out 24/27 str Torpedo salvo, granted I have to close for it to be effective, but don't you want a better chance for the 2nd (or 3rd) shot? Just asking... I went with the ld 8 because that seemed to be the overwhelming norm.
So thoughts? Which one is better? Or do they both blow?
been getting back into gothic myself recently as my local club has gained a few new players,
first off admiral of some sort is needed in games over 750 points,
ld 8 is a nice leadership for a ship, best imerial can get i think is 9 anyway so no great loss, for special orders i believe in squadrens you use highest leadership value for it, so the adiral gives you a nice stable value as the other ships leadership values are random. in smaller games such as 1000points leadership 8 is good, its not until large games that lower eaderships are going to make alot of difference or in my experience anyway.
i will say this i played agame about 3 hours ago well we finished about 3 hours ago started about 5 or 6 hours ago, i won because of the BC it was 2 points above being cripled but it managed to wipe out over half the oposing fleet on its own, though it was ignored for most of the game so i got off lucky there,
hope it helps you sightly
For the size of game you're playing, your first list would probably be a better option. In smaller games, two cruisers will carry a lot more weight than a single battleship - at that level, your battleship would just be isolated and torn to shreds.
In the interest of balance, I'd suggest dropping the Lunar for a Gothic - that would give you some reasonable lance power for the same cost, as at the moment your fleet is very gun-heavy. Other than that it's a decent fleet!
As for the Admiral, Ld. 8 is usually enough in smaller games - you'll find that leadership in BFG is really quite random anyway - lots of things can modify it. So bearing in mind that things will be sending your leadership up and down for the duration of the game, 8 is a solid base - to either make you very effective at passing ld tests when things go your way, or keep you reasonably effective when they don't. Add to that the fact that he's cheap and you're on to a winner - below 2000 points, extra ships will serve you better than extra leadership.
I rarely ever field battleships. There have been discussions about "degradation", wherein a Battleship will suffer repeated criticals, lose effective batteries and manueverability, ld, etc. For the points, you're better off with a squadron of cruisers, because the damage will be spread out over the squadron, and taking 6 hits means the full loss of a single ship out of 3, rather than the crippling of the only vessel (this cuts off dead weight, better to die than to drag the others down).
I agree to stick with the Admiral, Ld8 is fine for the reloading. I find that I only really reload once. 1 volley to break them up, reload. Then my ships deliver point-blank salvos later in the game. As they are a squadron, I usually don't reload until they ALL need reloading.
I'd also lose the Dauntless and Swords for a large squadron of Cobras. Torpedoes have a higher effective range, and bypass shields.
don't run all 4 capital ships/cruisers in a squadron. You don't want
to have a Lunar on Reload Ordnance when it should Lock On, you won't
want a Dictator on Lock On when you need to reload ordnance. Get it?
Also: if you need to brace: all ships in the squadron are braced.
I would only squadron 2 Lunars or Lunar/Armageddon (in BFA) within
an IN fleet above 1000pts! Otherwise always split.
Fleet Admiral is perfect. Enemies will be on special orders a lot of time so you gain a +1 easy.Untrue on all accounts. What do you mean with 'repeated criticals' anyway. An Emperor battleship is a fearsome ship and the best carrier the IN has. Above 1200pts pretty good.I rarely ever field battleships. There have been discussions about "degradation", wherein a Battleship will suffer repeated criticals, lose effective batteries and manueverability, ld, etc. For the points, you're better off with a squadron of cruisers, because the damage will be spread out over the squadron, and taking 6 hits means the full loss of a single ship out of 3, rather than the crippling of the only vessel (this cuts off dead weight, better to die than to drag the others down).
Damage will not spread in a squadron! First ship gets all hits. (You cannot target specific ships within a squadron, nearest is hit).
On your lists: I don't like both. What daft tactica advised you take an Overlord or Retribution is such low points? Single Dauntless isn't good either. You company it with either another Dauntless or a Firestorm squadron.
Lunar (or second Gothic maybe even better)
or look at the vengeance / excorcist options
Thanks for all the advice!
I'll have to think about it.
I also have a "vision", I suppose you could say. While I certainly like/want to win, I also like my lists (in 40k, that is) to have some - theme, I suppose. So I had this image of some flagship (Retribution or Overlord), slightly larger than the rest of the ships, the centerpiece of the fleet. Then the supporting vessels around it.
And I agree that a Dauntless on its own isn't a swell idea - but then my initial premise was that the capitals were in a squadron.
Thanks for the list - you make some very valid points, and I certainly have less experience than those on this list, so I'll take everyone's ideas/comments under advisement.
Last edited by AAkins; June 12th, 2009 at 15:06.
I suppose there is an argument to be had for starting off with optimal lists, so as to get the basics and a few good tactics under your belt, which is what I did, but I also seem to recall havng to re-learn everything when I started using a primarily fluff fleet! In short, it's your game - and I mean BFG as a whole, not just the battle that this list is for. So if you get more enjoyment from using a centerpiece, go for it! You may have to be prepared to see it take the occasional kicking - I don't know about you, but I quite enjoy commanding a fleet that isn't invincible and will win or lose based on how well I use them during the game - not on paper before anything's even kicked off!
Finally, on a personal note, I hope you'll keep posting in the BFG forums - it'll be nice to have more people about who can appreciate a good kicking in the name of fluff!
All that said, if you did want to give yourself one tiny advantage, I'd like to retract my suggestion about the Gothic - I thought you might be fighting Eldar based on your setup, but I couldn't be sure! As you are, you have totally the right idea - cruisers and guns!
first of all: All my fleets are fluff build. All my admirals have a long or very long background story in one way or another.
With my Eldar I even take the Spirit of Arina (Flame of Asuryan) with Hero for at least 470 pts in a 1250pts Craftworld or Corsair fleet. Because it is my ship. And it's a game winner! Always good dice. Yay.
But if someone on a forum asks advice I'll give him the best suggestions. Logical I think.
On squadroning: weapon batteries together has merits because of intervening blastmarkers, lances have no benefit.
Therefor it is logical to squadron two Lunars but not a Dominator and Gothic. Both variants have same firepower (12 wb + 4 lances as a broadside). But in the last case, without squadroning it is easier to manoeuvre. Gothic can go abeam and lock on, Dominator turn to gain better approach.
I rather field 12wb @ 30cm then 8wb @ 60cm from an Overlord.
Exorcists are nice if you want to trade the torpedos and front armor for a bit more survivability and firepower over the Dictator.
After playing several games as IN, I've kinda come to dislike the Dictator. Don't really know why, just doesn't seem to be as effective for it point value. Not that it isn't a good ship at all, just that at 220 points it seems a bit, blarg. Same goes for the Overlord in my opinion. Now the Mars I like a lot better as a carrier granted it is a pretty hefty price at 1k, then again it can also be the nice fluffy ship.
Cobra's are very nice, I try to field groups of at least 4 if possible. They can seriously maul anything that doesn't Brace, even then you cost the opponent probably a few hits and no special orders next turn.
A Lunar and a Gothic work wonders in conjuction with each other. Almost every capitol ship kill I've gotten have come from Gothics chewing apart the enemy after the Lunars guns drop the shields.
The ships you posted with the longer range gun batteries would be useful against Eldar, but not so much with anything else as you need the support of the 30 cm range ships to really lay down the hurt.
This is all opinion of course. Play around by proxying or magnetize every type of weapon you have to swap things out as well (can also be used to show criticals be removing armaments). See what you like and roll with it.
So... a noob question. At 1000 points, how important is strike craft?
The Dictator seems a bit pricy, but is the only way (short of several lt cruisers, or a mars, or an exorcist) to get strike craft.
You ditch in, and you can do things like
Of course, any where above you could replace the Vengeance with an exorcist, I suppose...
But I guess what I'm asking is, in 1000 pts, how big of a deal is 4 squadrons of strike craft? Is it nice, or is it an necessity?