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me and my friends are doing a progressive 40k campaign that switches between star combat and planetary warfare, travelling between planets to wage war etc. but what the point here is im new to BFG and im chaos, Nurgle/Deathguard to be precise, and i REALLY could do with some help to write an effective list at 750pts.
my main problem is a space marine player using salamanders who i ALWAYS lose to at basically everything and i know he has quite a sizable fleet at this points cost and plenty of torpedoes, theres probably another marine player and some orks, the basic rules are weve aggreed no characters or named items (except self named stuff), no warmaster (i would have to progress to warmaster level), 1 chaos lord, mark of nurgles only (i am death guard, kinda self-imposed), my flagship must include a CSM crew no terminators (although im arguing tooth and nail for my Terminators boarding rights lmao) oh and no battleship but im guessing at 750 thats not really an issue. my largest ship is a Repulsive Grand Cruiser Lord, CSM crew and MoN so thats already lik 345/350 points? other than those restrictions go nuts lol id like to avoid too much close range as his guns Crit on a 4+ and that hurts.
please post any help and suggestions im new and so dont really know what to take and would really appreciate the help also my RGC doesnt need the 3cruiser/heavy cruiser limmit
So we're dealing predominately with SM fleets, and Orks? Ok, no problem.
First of all, there's not a thing in those fleet that doesn't HATE lance batteries, and Ork ships can't deal with Ordnance very well.
A Repulsive is a rather poor choice, sadly, as it's weapons batteries are short ranged enough that it's going to be trading fire with the Marines, and you're rolling for 6's when trying to take them down. Desolator Battleships on the other hand... that's something that will terrify your SM foes. With 10 60CM lances in any direction, plus the ability to fire 9 torpedoes per round, you're talking about a LOT of damage potential. Pricey? Heck yeah, but dead? Most certainly.
The next recommended cruiser of course is your Devastation. Again, 60cm lances, and the ability to put out 4 squadrons of ordnance each turn, make this a versatile ship that can be used against Marines and Orks alike.
Following that you have the Acheron. Basically the strategy with this ship is to use the batteries to knock out the enemy shields, and then blaze away with the lances to cripple the foe. The Acheron can do this by hitting the foe with 6 prow weapons bats to the side, before firing with 4 lances, and the 2 60cm lances means that you can engage the enemy from outside their range if you feel like sniping.
Escorts are also good against Marines, who typically lack the kind of firepower needed to bring down a sizeable squadron. Orks on the other hand, will obliterate them if you hang out in front for too long.
If they haven't outlawed the Planet Killer, the Killer and 250pts of Escorts and attendant crew would be enough.
My suggestion for a list? Well
2x Acherons - 380pts
1x Devastation w/ Lord, MoN, SM Crew - 285
If you're willing to go 5pts over, you can pick up 2 Idolators.
In all honesty, I wouldn't argue for Terminator crews. I would argue to take unmarked vessels. You're spending 95pts on your marks and gear alone for that ship. Ditch all the junk, and you can pick up a third Idolator and have a half-decent fleet. MoN is expensive, just so that you can say you can't be boarded. If you're in range to be boarded with this fleet, you're doing something horribly wrong.
What does RCG mean? Why scrapping the cruiser limit for heavy cruisers?
Why no named items? The upgrades can always be taken (eg the lance for the Repulsive). Just read the armada book. At one point it says that all Mars class cruisers are upgraded with the targetting matrix).
Furthermore I'd like to know, you are not playing the BFG campaign system as in the book, right? Otherwise you would've known that a Chaos Lord isn't needed,because you as a player are the admiral/warmaster and use the leadership + re-rolls as given in the promotion tables.
Okay, Marines with a sizeable fleet at 750pts with torpedoes. Now this sounds odd. I guess you are not using FAQ/Compendium 2010 draft Marines (soon/ever to be official)?
Now, a bog down Marine list from Armada is something Chaos should take care of with ease. The only Marine ships with torpedoes are the Hunter Class Destroyers (escorts) and the Battle Barge, but the barge isn't allowed as it is a battleship. Good, barges are good, not seeing them means less trouble. Leaving you to deal with a sizeable amount of Hunters (?) and Strike Cruisers as mainstay.
Strike Cruisers do have 6+ armour but only 1 shield, are only effective when squadroned. I have a habit of destroying them. Mind you, if you count all my vitories against Marines I would have wiped out the complete Dark Angel chapter and more. heh heh.
He should field a pure Marine fleet. No Imperials allowed. He is imposing limits on you, so impose things back. Keep an eye on this: Marines excel at boarding, disallowing the terminator upgrade to you makes sure you can do more damage with boarding/hit&run then him!
Disallowing all this and that hurts Chaos more then Marines.
Orks can spam terror kroozers, this makes them effective, strong, unfluffy. haha. Watch those fleets though, they can dominate the ordance phase with ease.
Your own fleet:
The Repulsive, tad slow but ah well. You are doing a fluffy fleet = good. Lots of 45cm batteries. That's good, the more dice the better. The Marines will be on a closing path to you, thus prow on. Meaning you are shooting at closing targets = lots of dice.
The lance is 30cm which eats Marines. Again, the named upgrade isn't special and should be allowed. The lance range will be 45cm then. Also, from faq2007/faq2010 the Repulsive can have +1 shield for 15pts if it is on a large base.
Funny: Marines excel at boarding, your Repulsive will have the mark of nurgle, thus cannot be boarded. That is a grin on your face.
I would also say do not tailor your fleet. Do not be lance heavy. Make a fleet that is allround, there can always be new opponets. I hate tailoring.
You also need a carrier. So take the Devestation.
Fighters against thawks/torpedoes
Assault boats against escorts and strike cruisers
bombers against Orks (4+ armour ).
So what do we have now?
Chaos Lord 25pts (= +1Ld)
Mark of Nurgle 35pts
Marine crew 35ts (= +1Ld + more)
Repulsive (without upgrades) 230pts
Devestation 190 pts.
Subtotal for now: 515pts.
Leaving us with 235pts.
This could be filled with another cruiser, leaving only little odd points. In case of a Slaughter the maximum of 70pts.
Your fleet would have most benefit from a Carnage. But that'll only mean 55 spare points. As a token you could field one escort.
But effective wise add a Murder class for 170pts. Then 2 Iconoclasts as a backup force.
Or you say that 235pts will be escorts:
3 Infidels to use their torps to counter larger waves (a single str2 torp marker hitting a str10 torp marker means both are removed).
Leaving you with 115pts. Which I'd spend on 3 Iconoclasts.
Or instead of Infidels you take the Idolator, with lance and medium ranged batteries. and again 3 Iconoclasts.
Or 5 Idolators (10wb+5 lances)
Or 5 Infidels + 1 Iconoclast mixed in.
All those needed upgrades (the Chaos Lord should be removed, chaos marine crew does the same (having +1ld and granting a mark) make it all restricted. Especially if you want to field the fluffy Repulsive.
I'll be running the campaign the limits on upgrades i set was terminators for everyone, and no warmaster/master of the fleet whatever, your welcome to upgrade lances on the repulsive or take other similar upgrades, like you said i can only really upgrade with terminators so taking out upgrades would be unfair, but anyone who plays is welcome to take any other upgrades
But what is this 2010 compendium thing? yes my fleet consist mainly of hunter class
sorry for double post computer messed up
Last edited by Vulkan115; August 14th, 2011 at 21:19.
ah, that clears up. Then my advice is take the lance upgrade.
Terminators for everyone for free or everyone has to pay?
check this link:
contains FAQ/Compendium 2010. Including various additional fleet lists.
the drafts are currenly pending for GW's stamp of approval. But they are made by the official rules commitee.
I guess you as Marine will like them. Optional second shield for Strike Cruisers.
STOP HELPING HIM!!! lmfao
Well, to be honest i wasnt expecting a response within 24 houres and was never expecting, or ever had more detailed and helpful advice.
I would like to apoolgise for the spelling and grammer of that post, it was at 2 am and i was rather tired.
Also after a lenghty discussion he doesnt care about named upgrades and (admittedly) neither of us have read into the actual campaign rules also a RCG is a failed attempt to abbreviate a Repulsive Grand Cruiser. I noticed you seem to encourage the Iconolast, I find this interesting as when reading over its rules i had decided it was a worthless ship and not worthy of my attention.
His salamader fleet is 3 battle barges and 8 hunters 16, torpedoes a turn is scary.
I was having a hard time choosing between the Infidel and Idolator class' and i think in the end it came down to Idolator sounds a bit cooler, but i think i will like those Infidels' torpedoes after todays tester game in which I was brutally torpedoed to death
Also after much lengthy face-face discussion, which is nice because as we live in different areas we have to communicate over facebook and email which isnt the same, we concluded that I AM allowed named vessel upgrades (just not the name, like it makes a difference), and I am only allowed to ignore restrictions for my Repulsive Grand Cruiser as it is my Flagship, the Herald, and i have since decided (by your advice ) that no lord is needed.
Also 'nids are being introduced! I have been advised with ranged combat and ordnace and to destroy their Vanguard.
no terminators at the start they are a bit to mean, they will be allowed later but not at the start
Meh, I dont really care tbh, as long as i can earn them later. My Tallymen will sit tight in the mean time.
only 3 Barges and 8 Hunters?
Keep in mind only 1 Barge per 1000pts allowed (which means 2 in a 1500pts battle).
I said Iconoclast because it is cheap. If a large wave of bombers approaches fly one iconoclast into the wave...
6 Iconoclasts = 180pts = 18 weapon batteries. That's more then a Despoiler.
Use your long ranged Chaos weapons (lances on Devestation for example) to snipe at Hunters. Use aboats early on in an agressive way. If torps come close deploy fighters.
Do you people play with celestial phenomena?