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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Monsieur Cartier's Avatar
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    Discussion: Combining BFG with other systems

    The idea of combining various 40k games systems was recently brought up in a clan discussion, so presented forthwith are some ideas of how to do this. This is by no means a comprehensive or restricting list, merely a collection of suggestions that you might like to use to improve your gaming experience. Naturally, if anyone has anything to contribute, be it scenarios, other ideas for combining games that I might have missed etc then by all means make yourself known.

    First off, campaigns. Usually, in a campaign, you fight various scenarios with different objectives, but all in the same system (be it 40k, BFG, Inquisitor etc). However, there is no need to do this, especially if you have fleets and armies of the same race (or can write some fairly convincing fluff as to why they aren’t exactly the same- I declare my Imperial Fleet as a renegade one; it still uses all of the normal Imperial rules and all, but I know, in my head, that my Chaos Legion, the Discomarines, are crewing it. Makes even more sense when you factor in that the Discomarines are a renegade Smurf chapter as well). Obviously some common sense is required- no matter ho hard you try Orks can’t pilot Tyranid ships.
    So what about scenarios for doing this? The best one to begin with is a planetary assault. In this BFG scenario, the attacker must score ‘assault points’ representing the ground forces he/she is able to get down onto the planet’s surface. Before you lay the Gothic game, decide on a points value for a 40k game, then divide this by however many assault points would constitute as a draw (usually 5-6; 5 may make it easier to get a round figure). For instance, if you intended to play a 1500 point game every assault point scored by the attacker would give him 300 points to use when it comes to the 40k game. The same applies to a convoy mission- the victory conditions are slightly different here, but you can still apply the basic principle- the more transports that survive, the more points the player has for the next phase. Obviously, if he achieves a major victory in space then his campaign on the surface will be much easier; however this does not mean that in the event of him scoring 9 or so points or all his transports and having twice as many points top spend on his ground forces that the defender should just give up and expect a crushing defeat in both games. A great general would be able to stand strong against a massive enemy, hold the line, and go down with honour- but imagine the pride you can feel if you were to pull off a win! Ideal 40k scenarios for this would be bunker assault, Take and Hold, possibly the special scenario from the old Marine Codex, or really and ‘Battle’ scenario so long as you can pull together a decent narrative.
    The great thing about this way of playing a mixed campaign is that you can even slip a game of Epic into the middle. Instead of using ‘assault points’ or transports to decide how many points you have for the 40k game, just use this to see how big your Epic Armageddon army would be. Once you play this, then see how much either player wins by and apply that to the final game. I can’t suggest any Epic missions you might want to play, as it’s not really a game that I’m familiar with, but anything that involves one player stomping his way up to the other’s defences would be the one to go for. If you don’t have a 40k army then this would be the way forward, provided you have the Epic forces to use. Common sense applies here as well with race mixing.

    How about the other way around? You can even play a 40k game first, which will affect the conditions of the BFG scenarios you play. For instance, there was a battle report in WD a while ago, where a raiding force of Smurfs had to destroy as many of the three power generators that the Word Bearers were defending. These generators powered a Macro Cannon, a Nova Cannon with unlimited range based on the planet’s surface. By taking out 3 of the three generators, the Chaos forces could only fire the weapon every third turn when it came to the BFG slug-out. Similarly, there is a kill-team mission, sabotage, where the background for it is destroying a force-field generator on a forest moon (hmm, I wonder where that idea came from…) which, if the kill-team returned from victorious, would lead on nicely to en Exterminatus mission. With just a little imagination, you can link together any number of 40k, Epic and BFG scenarios and mission, from the rulebooks or of your own design; the only thing you have to do is actually try it out (cheese alert!). It adds a lot of depth and character to your games, and you can take great senses of achievement when you snatch victory from the jaws of failure (or an outnumbering opponent).

    For those of you that have far too much time on your hands, on thing you might like to try is combat patrol, 40k in 40 minutes, 40k in a flash (depending on where you come from) to fight out ship combats. I know, it sounds ridiculous, and a simple game might last the best part of a week, but this is just an open discussion, where anyone can throw in their opinion. If you do feel like trying this out, it’s simple; instead of deciding the outcome of a boarding action on the roll of a single die, fight yourselves a small 40k game. I mean small; no larger than 400 points and preferably with just foot troops (you aren’t going to find all that many basilisks defending against Dreadclaw assault boats). And while it may take 2 or 3 days for a 1500 point game of BFG as opposed to most just an afternoon, it’s gotta be great fun. I think. Maybe. Someone get back to me on that, yeah?

    So there are a few ideas to start you off. If anyone wants to add anything, feel free, similarly if you want to tell my I’m wrong about something or just to say that I am the best, then by all means do. I’m not the King of this topic, there are probably some veteran players of BFG who’ve been gaming for longer than I’ve even been aware of Games Workshop, so please add whatever you think would contribute. Maybe the ideas could be collated into an article one day, who knows.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    Wrote this up a long while back and posted it in the rules creation forum, then LO died and lost its backup. Been playtested, works with very few hitches. Always looking for new ideas and tweaks, though.

    Boarding Actions - v3.0 - 9/2004
    Rules for combining Battlefleet Gothic and Warhammer 40K.

    Note: I’m mostly experienced with the Imperial & Chaos fleets, know a little about Eldar, Space Marines, & Orks, and next to nothing about the Tau, Tyranid, Necron, and Dark Eldar fleets. If anyone who plays or has experience with those fleets could pay special attention to these rules and give me relevant feedback to keeping these rules equal for all fleets, I would be very happy.

    Another Note: The first three sections contain the core rules for Boarding Actions. The remaining sections have extended rules for things like multiple ship combats and capturing enemy vessels, and can be completely ignored for simplicity’s sake.

    1) Pre-Boarding Action
    The boarding action occurs between two or more ships in base-to-base contact at the end of the turn as per normal BFG rules. Likewise, normal BFG limitations on boarding actions (such as Escorts are unable to initiate a boarding action) still apply unless otherwise addressed. For combats involving more than one ship per side, see section 5 for rules. Use the following formula and modifiers to determine the points allocated to each ship in the conflict. Note: Using this system will NOT create even battles. This is to reward the captain who properly softens up a target before assaulting or the fleet admiral who coordinates the actions of multiple ships into a single action with realistic bonuses.

    Points per side = (Hits remaining to ship + Modifiers + D6) * 50

    Modifiers (use this list INSTEAD of the normal Boarding Action list of modifiers):
    -1 for being crippled (remaining crew is busy trying to make repairs)
    -1 for being in contact with blast markers (multiple markers do NOT stack)
    -1 for being under special orders that turn (crew is busy with the special order)
    -1 for having a ship Ld of 5 or less
    +1 for having a ship Ld of 10
    +1 for being the defending ship
    +1 for being a cruiser (includes grand, heavy, battle, light, & strike cruisers)
    +2 for being a battleship
    +1 per 10 STARTING hits for defenses, with a minimum bonus of +1 (A Ramilies star fort would get a +4 bonus as it has a total of 48 starting hits. A Blackstone Fortress with 12 starting hits gets a +1 bonus. An Ork Roc with 8 starting hits also gets a +1 bonus due to the minimum bonus of +1 for defences.)
    +1 per refit that gives a boarding-related bonus – the refit(s) give no other bonus (so a refit that allows for a re-roll during boarding actions would instead give a +1 bonus and would LOSE the re-roll bonus)

    A Chaos Cruiser with Ld 10 and 8 hits remaining attacks a crippled Imperial Battleship with Ld 8 and 4 hits remaining. The Chaos Cruiser has 8 hits remaining, a modifier of +2 (+1 for Ld of 10, +1 for being a Cruiser), and rolls a 2 on a D6, so (8 + 2 + 2) * 50 = 600 pts available for the boarding action. The Imperial Battleship has 4 hits remaining, a modifier of +2 (-1 for being crippled, +2 for being a battleship, and +1 for being the defending ship), and rolls a 4 on a D6: (4 + 2 + 4) * 50 = 500 pts available.
    In regular BFG rules, both Ork Space Hulks and Imperial Ramilies Start Forts are unable to be boarded by anything but each other, due to the massive numbers of troops aboard. That rule is removed with these Boarding Action rules. Because of the variable bonus for defenses, both Space Hulks and Ramilies Star Forts get a significant advantage points-wise, but can now be taken down by concentrated fire followed by a coordinated assault by multiple ships. When will that ever happen, you ask? Consider it a challenge!

    2) The Boarding Action
    Once you’ve calculated how many points each side is permitted, you have to make an army list. Because of the small sizes of most boarding actions and the “max/min”-ing that some lists allow, these Boarding Action rules use a modified version of “40K in 40 minutes” rules. The Force Organization chart is modified to prevent the overuse of the more unique choices available to some armies. Use the following FOC plus the five modifiers below it:

    FOC: 0-1 HQ, 0-2 Elites, 1+ Troops, 0-2 Fast Attack, 0-2 Heavy Support

    1) Tight Passages: The combat takes place in narrow passage ways and small chambers – too small for vehicles, gigantic creatures, or even high-speed bikes and packs! The following may NOT be used: AYTHING with an Av (even if it includes an armor or invulnerable save as well as an Av), bikes (all varieties), packs (jump & jet), walkers, skimmers, monstrous creatures, Tyranid monstrous creatures, Wraithlords. Also, guess and ordnance weapons are not allowed (mortars, orbital strikes, etc) for the same reason.

    2) Far-flung Fighting: Because of the quick and dirty nature of Boarding Actions, few high-ranking officers make it to the scene of the battle (or risk themselves by participating). Therefore, the following limitations exist: No model with more than two wounds may be used. HQ choices are limited to 100 points (not counting weapons and wargear). No special characters of any kind (including ones that do not require the opponent’s permission to use).

    3) Vacuum!: Many weapons are designed to penetrate the thick armor of combat machines. A misfire with such a weapon could rupture the ship’s hull, killing all involved. Therefore, no ranged weapons with a strength of 9 or 10 or with an AP of 1 or 2. Since many armies depend on the use of such weapons (Imperial Guard, for example), the weapons may still be taken, but strengths of 9 or 10 will be reduced to 8, and AP’s of 1 or 2 will be raised to 3. This represents the gunners modifying their weaponry to remove the danger to the ships. No points values change for modified weaponry.

    4) Allies: For the sake of simplicity, army lists are flexible. Few people have an army of Naval Troopers set aside for Boarding actions, so the fluff will have to be overlooked to a degree. Imperial Navy or Space Marine ships can use ONE of the following lists to represent their troops: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Witch Hunters, Daemonhunters. Chaos vessels can use One of: Chaos Space Marines, Lost and the Damned, Imperial Guard (traitor). Tau may elect to use the Imperial Guard list (human auxiliaries) instead of their normal lists. Demiurg ships are treated as Tau ships for this purpose. Eldar or Dark Eldar fleets may choose to use the Harlequin list instead of their normal lists. The remaining fleets must use their own lists (Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks).

    5) Common Sense: Certain units or choices would be impossible to use in Boarding Actions due to odd restrictions. It’s impossible to catch every single exception, so a degree of common sense has to be used when building a list. For example, a Wraithlord wouldn’t work for the same reasons a Dreadnought wouldn’t. Orbital Strikes couldn’t work, as no ships have internal lance arrays! Keep the games fair and try not to take anything absurd.

    Deployment: Deploy on a 4’ x 4’ table using any appropriate scenery to represent the inside of a ship. Defender chooses a table edge, Attacker gets the opposite edge. Deployment zones are 12” in from the player’s edge, running all the way along their edge. For larger actions (remember my challenge concerning boarding a Ramilies Space Fort?), use an appropriately larger table and use the long edges as your deployment zones. Attacker goes first.

    Objective: Destroy the enemy completely within 4 turns.

    3) Boarding Action Resolution
    The winner of the battle is the player with the most Victory Points after the 4 turns are completed. Calculate Victory Points using the below method:
    +1 point gained for every 100 points of the enemy destroyed
    +1 point for destroying the enemy force entirely
    +1 point for having more points remaining than the enemy
    +1 point for having twice as many points remaining than the enemy (this DOES stack with the above bonus)
    +1 point for destroying the enemy completely before the end of the third turn

    The difference between the Victory Points scored by each side is the Boarding Action result. The losing ship takes damage equal to the result. At the end of a Boarding Action, check the Results table on page 34 of the BFG rulebook to determine any Critical Hits that occurred as a result of the fighting. After a Boarding Action is resolved with a result of 1 or more, the surviving ship(s) can move, shoot, and perform as normal the next turn.

    Using the first example (a Chaos Cruiser boarding an Imperial Battleship), let’s assume the battle ended after four turns with 300 points of Chaos and 100 points of Imperial troops surviving. That means the Chaos side earned 7 VP and the Imperial side earned 4 VP. The battle difference is 3, so the Imperial Battleship takes 3 points of damage. Upon checking the Results table, it is discovered that the action is classified as “Driven Back” so the loser takes a critical hit on a 3+, and the winner takes a critical hit on a 6+. The boarding action is completed, with the Chaos Cruiser being the decisive victor and the Imperial Battleship being reduced to one hit remaining.
    If the Boarding Action Result is a draw, the ships remain entangled and can not move, shoot, or perform any other actions until the next End Phase, when another Boarding Action is performed. The ships will remain entangled until one or both sides are completely destroyed. Recalculate points for the next battle using each ships current hits and the following modifications: no modifiers for being the defender (fighting has spread to both ships), no modifiers for being crippled (the crew make their way to the fight at hand, leaving repairs for later), and no modifiers for special orders (neither side could perform them this turn). When one of the entangled ships is destroyed, it rolls once on the Catastrophic Damage table (Blue Book, pg 26).

    After the first Boarding Action, we’ll say the Chaos Cruiser and Imperial Battleship both had 6 VP, so they remain in combat. At the next End Phase, points are recalculated and another battle is fought. This time, Chaos wins by 4, causing enough damage to destroy the Imperial ship. The Chaos Cruiser can move and shoot as normal during its next turn, while the destroyed Imperial ship rolls a 3 on the Catastrophic Damage table and becomes a drifting hulk.
    4) Multi-Ship Boarding Actions
    If multiple ships attempt to board an enemy vessel, only compute the modifiers of the ship with the most hits remaining. The other ships add a number equal to half of their remaining hits rounded up to that total, then the sum is multiplied by 50 as normal. Also, the side with multiple ships has the following modifications to their Battle rules: +1 Troop choice required per additional ship in combat (3 ships requires a minimum of 3 troops choices). Only one list can be used for the combined force (no using IG for one ship and SM for the other, for example). All other special rules still apply. When deploying, the attacker’s deployment becomes 18” instead of 12” to represent the larger attack force.

    The same Chaos Cruiser from the first example is this time joined by another Cruiser with 5 hits remaining in the assault on the same Imperial Battleship. The modifiers for the first Cruiser are worked out as normal (it having 8 hits, so being the largest ship on that side of the combat). Using the exact same situation as before, this leaves (12) * 50 for points. But because of the second cruiser’s presence, a modifier of 3 is added, so (12 + 3) * 50 = 750 points available for the Action on the Chaos side, versus the 500 points still available to the Imperial ship.
    If the side with multiple ships is the losing side in a Boarding Action, distribute hits evenly amongst the participating ships. After a combat, ALL vessels are subject to a critical hit as per the Results table on page 34.

    The Imperial Battleship’s crew performs amazingly well and defeats the two Chaos Cruisers by 2. One hit is allocated to each Cruiser, and both Cruisers have to test for a critical hit on a 4+. The Imperial Cruiser isn’t out of the fire yet, as it has to test for a critical hit on a 5+. All three ships are free to move and shoot on their next turns.
    5) Special Conditions
    After army lists have been built, but before deployment, you can elect to roll for special conditions. Roll a D6. On a roll of 4+ roll on the table below for a special condition inside the ship:

    1-2 Anticipation: The defenders saw the incoming attack boats and had time to position themselves accordingly. The defenders may use the Hidden Setup rule.

    3-4 Malfunction!: The ship has sustained heavy damage from the incoming enemy attack boats - lights and sensors in this area have been knocked out! Night Fighting rules are in effect. Every turn that NF rules are still in effect (starting with the second turn), roll a D6. On a roll of 5+, repairs have been made and power is restored to this section of the craft, and Night Fighting rules are no longer in effect for the remainder of the action.

    5-6 Unprepared: Both sides choose one Troops choice to deploy on the field, all other units start in reserves. Each turn, roll for reserves for each undeployed unit to see if they enter the battle. This is to represent the boarding action happening quickly and unexpectedly and neither side was able to properly prepare.

    6) Capturing Ships
    Face it, everyone would love the opportunity to capture their enemy’s Planet Killer/Star Fort/Flagship/Big Killing Thingy and use it against them. This section has rules for capturing enemy vessels due to Boarding Action results. For the sake of fairness, ALL ships or defenses that can be boarded can also be captured. Granted, certain ships wouldn’t ever be captured, or if they were, wouldn’t be controllable (Tyranid vessels come to mind), but since the majority of ships would contain similar type controls (Lever/Wheel/Red Button That Says ‘Go’), we’ll let little inconsistencies go.

    After Victory Points are calculated but before any results have been rolled or damage applied, compare each player’s VP. If the victor’s VP is equal to or higher than TWICE the losing player’s VP, the winner has the option of capturing the vessel instead of inflicting damage. If the victor chooses not to capture the enemy vessel, then roll as normal for results and apply damage. If the victor chooses to attempt a capture, roll a D6:

    1-4 Failure: The winning ship was unable to capture the losing ship. Roll combat results as per the Boarding Action Resolution rules. Each ship takes an additional automatic point of to represent the crew killed and damage inflicted in the attempted takeover.

    5-6 Success: The losing ship has been captured! Any remaining hits on the losing ship are removed (without destroying the ship – crew is killed, but the ship is intact). The winning ship takes its total number of hits and divides it among the two ships however the winning player likes. The player has two options: First, they may place ALL of the hits on one ship, effectively abandoning the other vessel. The player may NOT allocate more hits to a ship that it started the game with. The abandoned vessel (with no hits remaining) takes a single roll on the Catastrophic Damage table (page 26, Blue Book) to represent the winning crew scuttling the abandoned vessel. The player’s second option is to split their remaining hits amongst the two ships. They may split the hits any way they see fit as long as each ship has at least 1 hit allocated to it and no ship has more hits than it started the game with. If a ship has less than half their maximum hits, it is crippled as per normal rules. Any damage the ship(s) had before the fight is maintained (ie, if you capture a ship with no working weapons, it won’t magically have weapons). Repair rolls can still be made as normal. Note: the captured ship becomes less effective because of the unfamiliarity of its new crew. All advantages from special rules are lost, whether they be upgrades, refits, add-ons, or campaign-won rewards (like Elder Holofields, Necron fast repairing, and Marks of Chaos). If the ship contained a character, then the character is lost along with any advantages he gave (for example, if a ship containing an Admiral is lost, his remaining re-rolls are lost as well).

    An Imperial battlecruiser with 8 hits remaining wins a boarding action over a Chaos cruiser by a score of 7 to 3. The Imperial player attempts to capture the enemy cruiser and rolls a 5 on his capture attempt & succeeds. Since the Imperial vessel has no working shields, the Imperial player chooses to allocate all 8 of his hits to the newly acquired Chaos cruiser – abandoning the damaged Imperial battlecruiser for the still-functioning Chaos ship.

  4. #3
    Son of LO Wolf_Pack's Avatar
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    We are currnetly running a Hex campaign, ich incorporates All the specialist games. It is in development but I feel there will be something coming out of it doon, and I'll give out some more details on the fonctioning of the system.

    The system would be based on ressource use ( sending a fleet will be much more costly then sending in a kill team of instance, and will be rewarded in consequence, (more risk mean great spoils!)

    BFG will be a bigger part of the game, as most of your mouvement will require sapce travel, unless in the same sector. Sending away an epic size force will mean a space convoy, so a successful BFG mission would be in order. If you were to fail, your force would be reduced in size, and so on.

    Like I said, I'll get back with more structure after some more in dept testing.
    Best Regards,

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  6. #4
    Member Rogoth's Avatar
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    You could do a Necromunda or 40k in 40 minutes where you had to infiltrate to capture or destroy something, like a gun or generator. Then a BFG of the assault on the planet, where assault points were used in an Epic campaign, where individual battles were fought with 40k.

    Of course... This sounds like a life-long campaign.
    Cadian Enforcement Taskforce(1500) (3/3/2)
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