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Hey there all, while at Conflict Vancouver I played a WONDERFUL demo of BFG. I am now hopelessly addicted, and have decided to build myself a fleet of the Imperial navy. Armored prows, torpedos and nova cannons, oh my.
Emperor Class Battleship
-Shark Assault boats
As soon as I saw the Emperor Battleship, I fell in love with it. Words cannot explain how much I adore this ship's model, fluff and rules. Seeing as how I had 5 points left over, I added some of them fancy assault boats.
2x Dominator Class Cruisers
These are great ships. Smashing up cruisers at long range, then getting some absolutely RIPPING broadsides in with them firepower 12 batteries.
2x Gothic Class Cruisers
Firepower 4 lances on the sides. What more can I say? I'm sure these will work great with the dominators and swords, who are capable of smashing shields with their awesome battery firepower. Afterwards, these little guys can reach out with their lances and do some serious damage.
6x Sword Class Frigates
Ahh, the venerable sword class. More heavily armored than the cobras, and capable of some very nice combined firepower. These guys will probably hang around the Gothics or the Emperor.
5x Cobra class Destroyers
Oh boy, Cobras. These guy's will be zipping around various flanks, and can release some AWSOME torpedo Salvos.
Well, there it is. I think I got a nice balance of Weapons batteries, lances, torpedos, ordinance and nova cannons. Comments would be muchly appreciated.
Hmm. I'm a bit worried about a Battleship in 1500pts, but it probably won't be an issue. The risk here is that it's your only fighter support. If the BB is removed, you could be in for a world of trouble. Then again, that's a symptom of most fleet lists.
Gothics, well... I've never once had one of those perform the way I wanted it to. I've found that Lunars are a MUCH better ship of the line - especially if you run into the occasional Eldar/DE player, where Lances really aren't that useful. 2 Lances + 6 Batteries is better, usually, than 4 Lances alone. Odd, considering that they share their name with the game itself, but thats how it goes.
Two Nova Cannon might be considered cheesy by some people, but don't let that get you down The downside to having them, though, is that they become significantly less effective once you close with the enemy. I, in fact, really dislike the Dominator class for that reason - they're designed to be up close and personal with those broadsides, but have to pay extra for a weapon that doesn't compliment their batteries? My own preference is using the Mars Battlecruiser for Nova Cannon (with launch bays, it can sit back safely), and keeping torpedoes on the frontrunners of the fleet (as a torped salvo from point blank is damned effective!). If you do consider changing one or both of these, consider Tyrants - they're amazing gunships, especially with the upgrade.
How do you have those Escorts split up? I like to go with squadrons of 3-4 ships each, depending on what I can field.
I'd suggest splitting the Swords into two squads, one to cover the Emperor and one to head into the fray with the other Cruisers. The Cobras you can leave as-is, actually, and use them to operate from the sidelines. Their speed is 30cm, making them one of the fastest Imperial ships - use them to circle around and flank. Torpedo salvos coming in from 2+ directions is nothing to be laughed at!
Thanks for the input.
Yeah, I'v been wondering about the Gothics myself too. Nobody seems to think loading up on them is a good idea. My cunning plan? Play with both, and seeing which mix of Gothics/Lunars would suit me most. Lunars are starting to become much more appealing to me, after receiving a few comments now on the Gothics. I can easily drop the sharks on the Emperor, and upgrade one to a Tyrant. I quite like this idea, but I hear Lunars work best in pairs.
On the Dominators, I'm not sure I can part with them. I love the far ranged killy-ness, and cheese be damned. The very reason you dislike them, makes them appeal greatly to me. If I did drop them, I'm not sure were I'd get my nova cannon fix.
Concerning Escorts. I was planning for the cobras to stick together, but you point about splitting the swords seems like a good idea. I'd hate to leave my Huge, costly and slow battleship without support.
Last edited by Marlinspike; August 25th, 2006 at 18:12.
Good advice there from mEGALOMANIAC. He is spot on about the Dominators... they have an odd weapons mix making them a bit awkward to use. I would wait until you have a bigger fleet before you include them, then hang them back with your carriers so they can use the BFGPPCD (nova cannon) to full effect. I think 1 nova cannon per 750 points is the maximum you can go before being cheese; so you are just on the cusp of cheesyness
A battleship in a fleet of 1500 points can be a risky ploy. Battleships are awesome models, and do lots of damage but also take up lots of points. In such a small fleet, this large points cost can detract from your essential cruiser and escort base, possibly weakening your fleet. Also, if you play one opponent regularly, he/she will get used to your battleship and become very good at exposing it's weaknesss and using them against you. I find battlehips are better used now and again as they will scare an opponent who is not used to facing them... BFG psychological warfare
I have to disagree with mEGALOMANIAC about the Gothics, but that is just a matter of opinion really. He is correct about you needing some more ships of the line; Lunars and Tyrants are very good at this.
I like your choice of escorts mate. I agree with mEGALOMANIAC about their deployment. With the second squad of sword (the ones that will go with the cruisers); keep them behind the cruisers as you close (or they will get shot to pieces) then use them to pick off crippled enemy ships or to protect your cruisers from enemy escorts coming from the rear.
So, in summary:
- Some more ships of the line, maybe replace a Dominator and a Gothic with some Lunars/Tyrants
- The points spent on a battleship may be better spent on some more cruisers (Mars and a Dauntless?)
- Don't forget about a fleet admiral
Hope this helps mate.
Thanks for posting!
Alright, you've convinced me. As awe inspiring, huge and awesome the battleships are, I guess they aren't going to cut it in this fleet. So, If I drop the Emperor in favor of a Mars class Battle Cruiser, that frees up a few points. Noticing the relative lack of ordinance I now have, I decided to upgrade one of my cruisers to a Dictator. This brings my ordinance total back up to eight launch bays.
I left the escorts as they were, and fiddled around with my cruisers a bit.
Mars Class BattleCruiser
Is the targeting array really worth it? I do have some points left over. Otherwise, a solid ship. Methinks it'll stay back, smashing things with it's nova cannon and launching waves of ordinance.
2x Lunar Class Cruisers
Two solid ships of the line. These guys will be he backbone of the fleet, smashing shields and launching wave after wave of torpedo's into the enemy.
Dominator Class Cruiser
Heh, just had to sneak this guy in somehow. This keeps my total amount of nova cannon's up at two, which is apparently at the edge of cheesyness. I'm not too sure wether he will stick with the Mars, or somewhere else.
Dictator Class Cruiser
When I dropped the Emperor in favor of the Mars, I lost four launch bays. I decided to take this guy to beef the total back up to a respectable eight.
6x Sword Class Frigates
Ahh, the venerable sword class. I'm not too sure what to do with their deployment after losing the Emperor. I'm thinking about two groups of three, each sitting behind the cruisers.
5x (6x?) Cobra Class Destroyers
Nothing changes much about these guys, They zip around as a pack, and try to get of some awesome flank torpedo salvos. I have a few extra points, so I'd like to up the number of em to six.
In total, this comes to 1450 Points. I was thinking of adding on the targeting array to the Mars, And grabbing another Cobra. If you guy's can think of anything other to do with these points, that'd be great.
Thanks for all the help so far, rep for all!
Last edited by Marlinspike; August 26th, 2006 at 05:03.
With a fleet this size you have to include a fleet admiral of some sort. As such I suggest you spend the remaining points on one Have a look at your fleet list for further information.Originally Posted by Marlinspike
I like the fleet much more now you have altered it a bit. You are pretty strong on attack craft - 8 Markers in a 1500 point fleet is going to be making most Chaos players think twice. You will find that your direct fire capabilities will be slighlty weaker than most other fleets because of this however. From a distance you will be fine, but as you close you will notice that the amount you can shoot will drop off suddenly as you go under the minimum range of the Nova cannon. In the following close-up gunfight you will not have as much heavy firepower to rely on, so you may find you lose out a bit there. (not a great deal, but enough to notice it)
As such, it is important that you do sufficient damage to the enemy from range in order to prevail during the close up stuff. Most fleets will be faster than yours, and WILL try to rapidly close the distance and engage you in a gunfight. They will do this as it gives them some protection from your two BFGPPCD (nova cannon) and allows them to put some pressure on your carriers, making it more difficult to reload. You may find that on terrain heavy boards you will be at a disadvantage as your BFGPPCD will not be able to fire that often, so try, during these games, to either split the enemy fleet or get in sufficient bomber squadons to weaken them before the close-in gunfight. To make the most of what direct fire you have, be sure to concentrate fire on one enemy ship with as much as possible!
Your current fleet will also have some trouble defeating the Eldar. Your strengths (attack craft and BFGPPCD) will not hurt Eldar much thanks to their Holofields. They will be hugging terrain as much as possible so you will not be able to fire the BFGPPCDs often. You will have lots of fighters to protect against the deadly Eldar ordnance, but you will not be able to hit them very hard when you get the chance (no long ranged batteries). For this reason, when you come to expand your fleet I suggest you grab yourself a pair of Tyrants - the long range weapons batteries on these guys help to no end when fighting the pointy-eared pirates. Don't worry overly about your fleet having trouble with Eldar fleets - everyone does as the Eldar fleet can be an extrodinary pain in the stern to play against:yes:
As you are relying on attack craft as one of your strengths it may be a good idea to spend a decent amount of points on a fleet admiral. This will give you good leadership and a few re-rolls that will allow you to keep pumping out as many attack craft counters as you need. You can put the Mars and the Dictator in a squadron (with the admiral on the Mars) so that they share leadership and reload rolls; which will cut down then number of rolls you have to make hence the number of rolls you will fail. Think about dropping a cobra to get a good fleet admiral; you don't have to, but it might help in certain circumstances so have a think about it.
With the Swords - two groups of three would still work well. Have them plugging gaps in the battle line, protecting your stern from opposing escorts and picking off crippled enemy vessels.
Right, thats all I can think of now (I've just woken up). Hope his helps you mate. The fleet you have now will be fun to learn to play with. You will find yourself the king of large, open boards but may find that closer in you suffer a bit. That will make the fleet great fun to use, as you will have to learn how to use it effectively in each situation you come accross. One of the great things about BFG is the fleet composition is not as important as how you use them on the table. Once you have worked out how your fleet works (play against a couple of mates or even play against yourself a little) you will find ways around your weaknesses and ways in which to better utilise your strengths.
Oh yeah, and about the battleship - get some more cruisers and escort and then get a battleship; they are much more feasible in a larger fleet
You know what? This makes me feel really silly. Not because I forgot to take an Admiral, but because I just forgot to put them up on to the forum. Both times. :wacko:Originally Posted by rp252
I'm quite happy with the list now. It's got lots of HUGE guns, and a nice number of attack craft. I suppose I'll have to think carefully when the battles start getting closer, as to my slight under-gunedness.
So, I still have 50 points left over. I'm now considering upgrading to an Admiral, and using the LD9 on the Mars and Dictator. Thoughts?
Once again, thanks for all the help!
Yeah, I think it is a good idea myself. The more special order rolls you need to make the better your leadership needs to be in order to pass them all. An admiral helps loads on this repect.Originally Posted by Marlinspike
Good luck with the fleet buddy.