800 Imperial vs Chaos - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    800 Imperial vs Chaos

    Random game today to see if I've gotten worse at all.

    Fleets:

    Imperial-
    Dauntless 1 Fortitude
    Dauntless 2 Retribution
    Dauntless 3 Bastion
    Dauntless 4 Uziel
    Gothic Unstoppable Fury
    Lunar Emperors Will
    Total: 800

    Slaughter Desolation
    Slaughter Soulless
    Slaughter Damned
    Devestation Warpforged
    Infidel Fellclaw 1
    Infidel Fellclaw 2
    Infidel Fellclaw 3
    Total: 805

    We agreed to forgo the use of admirals and warmasters in this game, though as penalty for veing five points over we agreed that my opponent could choose one of my ships to have a +5cm movement penalty in the first turn. He went ahead and chose my Devestattion.

    Board- we played on a 1m by 1m table, he deployed his forces on the top right corner and I deployed mine on the bottom left. A dead planet (no gravity) dominated most of the top left corner while its shattered moon (moon and asteroids) were placed in the bottom right. Asteroid pockets were scattered around the bulk of the board, and while hindering the most direct routes they did little more.

    Deployement: I lost the deployment roll and set up first, grouping my infidels together and slaughters together. I positioned the slaughters to move towards the table corner with the planet and the infidels towards the moon with the devestation following.

    The imperial fleet was placed so that Fortitude, Retrobution and Unstoppable Fury would head to intercept the slaughters by the dead planet while Uzile, Bastion, and Emperors Will went after the infidels and devestation.

    M- movement phase
    S- shooting phase
    O-ordanance pahase

    Sadly, for me, I lost the roll for first turn.
    Turn one Imperial:
    M-Fortitude, Retrobution and Unstoppable Fury move forwrad their full amounts towards the dead planet to head off and meet Damned, Desolation, and Soulless.
    M-Uzile, Bastion, and Emperors Will move forward their full amounts to head off the Fellclaws and Warpforged.

    Turn one Chaos:
    M-Damned, Desolation, and Soulless follow the imperial fleet in moving forward their full distance to meet them at the dead planet.
    M-The Fellclaw pack shoot towards Emperors Will, Bastion, and Uziel by moving towards an asteroid cluster.
    Warpforged moves at half speed but because of the movement penalty the ship has to move an additional 5cm.
    O-Warpforged launchers four bombers, with none of the imperial ships containing any launch bays there will be no need to worry about interceptors.

    Turn two Imperial:
    M-Emperors Will, Bastion, and Uziel all go on all ahead full orders (Emperors Will passing with +17, Bastion passing with +11, and Uziel passing with +13) and move forward to launch a broadside volley against the Fellclaws.
    M-Fortutude, Retrobution, and Unstoppable Fury continue moving forward, none of their weapons having enough range.
    S- Emperors Will, Bastion, and Uziel fire their weapons batteries at the Fellclaws but the distance and asteroid cluster aid the three ships in avoiding the worst of the damage. (One hit taken on Fellclaw 1's shields) Emperors Will follows through blasting Fellclaw 1 into spacedust with its lances (One hit.)
    O- the bombers continue forward towards Emperors Will, Bastion, and Uziel.

    Turn two Chaos:
    -Damned Soulless, and Desolation activate lock on orders (All three passing)
    -Warpforged goes on burn retros (fails)
    M-The three Slaughter cruisers move full speed forwards
    M-Warpforged, having been robbed of its chance to not move at all, moves only 13cm forward so that its lance batteries will be in range
    M-Fellclaws 2 and 3 flank Uziel, Bastion, and Emperors Will and come out behind the three cruisers before orienting themselves to be perpendicular to their enemies so that their own side weapons can fire back.
    S-Warpforged aims its lances at Uziel and scores a hit that is absorbed by the shields
    S-The remaining Fellclaws fire their weapon batteries at Uziel, her shields not having time to recharge against another salvo of fire, and score a hit of their own that damages the thrusters of the light cruiser. (critical hit: thrusters damaged.)
    S-Damned, Desolation, and Soulless open up on Fortitude, hitting the dauntless five times with its weapon batteries and three more times with the lances to destroy the vessel in one blow. The heavy fire shatters the power core of the ship and instigates a warpdrive implosion that blows up with an 11cm range (hitting both Retrobution and Unstoppable Fury)
    S-The damage caused by Fortitudes implosion cause three hits on Retrobution, one absorbed by the shields, and four hits on Unstoppable Fury, two absorbed by the shields. The damage causes two fires on Unstoppable Fury but Retrobution manages to come out with only minor damage.
    O-The bombers turn their sights on Bastion, all but one group making it in and causing three hits to the lighter ship the damage the connections of the port and starboard weapons batteries as well as crippling the lighter cruiser.
    E- Niether Retrobution or Unstoppable Fury succeeded in repairing damages, Unstoppable Fury takes another two points of damage from the fires and is now crippled.

    Turn three Imperial:
    M-Emperors Will goes on come to new heading order (pass) and doubleturns to the right (towards the chaos deployment zone) and moves at half speed to counter the Fellclaws.
    M-Uziel tries to lock on (fails) but the damages to the ship disable the targeting servitor and force the crew to fire 'blind'. Uziel moves 8 forward but is reduced to 3 because of the blast marker.
    M-Bastion moves 13 forward before turning and facing Warpforged head on with its remaining active weapons.
    M-Retrobution moves 8 forward but is also reduced to 3 because of blast markers.
    M-Unstoppable Fury moves forward 15.
    -Unstoppable Fury fires its lance batteries at Damned hitting both times (both shots absorbed by shields.)
    -Retrobution fires its weapon batteries at Damned but miss completely.
    -Emperors Will fires a broadside at Fellclaw 3 but all of the weapon and lance battery shots miss.
    -Uziel fires its weapon batteries at Warpforged (1 hit, absorbed by shields)
    -Bastion fires its lance batteries at Warpforged (1 hit absorbed by shields)

    Turn three Chaos:
    M-Damned, Soulless, and Desolation go on lock on orders (all pass) before moving 20 (25 for Damned) forward.
    M-Warpforged goes on lock on (pass) moves forward full
    M-Fellclaw 2 moves 5 forward and turns 90 degrees to the right and moves another 10 forward.
    M-Fellclaw 3 turns to face Emperors Will before moving 20 forward.
    S-All three slaughters open up again, this time shooting Unstoppable Fury with the side and prow weapons batteries while the lance batteries fire at Retrobution. Of the thirty weapon battery shots from Soulless, Damned, and Desolation thirteen hit and turn the gothic cruiser into a blazing hulk. The lance shots score five hits and turn the dauntless into a second blazing hulk.
    S-Warpforged aims its weapons battery at at Bastion, hitting it twice for the shields to absorb one shot. Warpforged continues by firing its lance battery at Uziel, causing only a single hit that brings down the light cruisers shields.
    S-Both fellclaws fire their weapon batteries at Uziel, though because of the blast marker caused by Warpforgeds lance they only manage one hit; though the hit does cause critical damage in the form of the shields overloading and collapsing completely.
    S-Fellclaw 3 fires its other weapons battery at Bastion, causing another hit and more damage.
    O-Devestation launches another wave of bombers, this time aimed at Emperors Will.
    O-Despite losing three groups of bombers, one group makes it through the defence turrets and cause two hits; one which proceeds to cause critical damage of the worst kind: bulkhead collapse causing an additional 6 hits which reduce the cruiser to zero in one blow.

    With only two crippled light cruisers left to fight a relatively untouched chaos fleet we agreed that the game was over. I know before I said the asteroid clusters didn't really do anything but to be perfectly honest I think that without them the Fellclaws would have take a bigger beating before. An hour and three turns later I definately feel like I'll be ok playing next week as we start a campaign up again...

    One thing I wonder right now, should I have posted this in the battle reports section? It is a battle report but BFG is a bit different from normal 40k..


    Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.

    "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
    Member of the Fluff Masters Clan

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  3. #2
    Member Rogoth's Avatar
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    I think it will be fine here, BFG reports are so few and far between it would get lost over in the Battle Reports section.

    One technical point, I see you have escorts, were the Fellclaws squadroned?

    The battle went very well for you. You lost deployment and first turn, yet still came out ahead. Where do you think the Imperial fleet went wrong? Do you think the Imperial player should have split his ships that way? Was his lack of launch bays a factor in his loss?

    List point values bother me sometimes, especially in small games. Being honest, do you think your extra movement penalty made up for the loss of an escort (Probably a squadron, as I don't beleive two escorts can be a squadron) that would have resulted from having a strictly "legal" point value? Or was it not a factor?
    BFG
    Cadian Enforcement Taskforce(1500) (3/3/2)
    40k
    181st Cadian (1500) (0/1/4)

  4. #3
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    Yes the Fellclaws were grouped together.

    Personally I think it wasn't so much what was in the imperial fleet rather how they chose to engage their chaos enemies. I'd have been in a world of hurt if he had sent everything or almost everything towards the infidels and devestation rather than split up.

    Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.

    "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
    Member of the Fluff Masters Clan

  5. #4
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    I also agree the list pt values get awkward but Chaos to Imperial stays about as fair as it gets sub 1000 unless you fight same fleet vs same fleet. Although admitadly it's no question the Imperial fleet needs larger numbers to thrive at maximum effect, where as Chaos with it's speed and range fairs much better in smaller engagements.

    2 is minimum for escort squads Rog. Check the other thread you asked that, I went ahead and referenced you the page number on that one {i figured you could have found it on your own but why make both of us waste the look up time when i already did it}.

    While I don't think that penelty was worth the luxory of going 5 points over...
    [LONG post/article awhile back by Gav or Andy, can't remember which, that explains why that is in GW games. Had the actual math, examples, and logic behind why it's a much bigger edge then the 1, 3, 5 or whatever points you get, which I can't find now to link on the official site and I'm too lazy to try and retype in my own words]
    ... honestly with this fleet, at that point value, and from the description we're given I also don't think it would have altered the battle too much.
    Still if you did it again, I'd give him a +1 to a leadership on a ship of his choice {not one that would take it above his racial maximum obviously} at the least.

    Some poor choices of target selection and attack angle stand out on his part. Plus am I reading this right? The Imperial player split his fleet? And he gave you the ability to put target priority on his lacking.6+.frontal.armor Dauntlesses? Looks like you started making him pay for his mistakes the first turn of yours after he made them, two thumbs up on that! Dice at least didn't seem to hate you in this game either which is good, not much worse then playing well and losing to fate.

    In a way I think he overdepends on Dauntlesses too. Alot of Imperial players do that in small games, I think you did a good job of making him pay for his fleet selection.
    {hey Rog, remember our SC vs Dauntless discussion from the other thread, I think this kind of illustrates the point we agreed on there}

    Infidels are phenominal for their points and Slaughter squads work so well, especially against a fleet like this (only need 3 hits to cripple a Daunt) I think you made some excellant choices and it showed in the end result from a rocky start.

    Plus, 800 points, no escorts? Against Chaos? {AND as Rog pointed out, no real attack craft either?}... a empty field that big for all that manuverability and NO escorts on his part? I'd have at least had a Sword pair in a default Imp list just to counter the nastiness those Infidels can do. On your part good usage of the differant ship sizes avaliable to you. Escorts can rule the small battlefield, often in no more then how they help you control your opponents location into your main fleet.

    Was your opponent a new player perhaps? If so tell him to try some games with a few escorts. I think he'd like his outcome a whole lot better. If an Imperial fleet doesn't field either Escorts or at least some number of Ordinance, it had better have one massive 6+ frontal armor wedge + torpedo barrage against Chaos with it's superior speed and range.

    Anyway. Long and short you seem to from a rocky start have pretty much played your fleet the textbook way to smoke Imperials as Chaos and you did it well. You had good rolls, a good selection, and you tried to minimize any weaknesses while exploiting his {both innate due to the two fleets and his specific choices, and ones he handed to you}. Kuddos to you. Plus you seem to have done some nice damage stacking with your fleet really working together to help each other, which is very solid.

    To him... hmm... maybe lose a Dauntless to pick up, maybe a Sword+Firestorm+Firestorm squadon. It'd make the game equal points. Or to perhaps play around and try and field some launch bays. Not sure. Rog might have some better opinions.
    Last edited by BFGMidwesternPrisoner; December 18th, 2006 at 11:18. Reason: Because

  6. #5
    Member Rogoth's Avatar
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    Well... I wasn't picking on the Imperial player, I was looking for the DR's opinion on the Imperial player's performance. BUT, if you want my opinion...

    All Imperial fleets over 750 points MUST include an Admiral. So there's 50 points for LD8. May as well include an extra re-roll in all that for 25 points. Kill all four Dauntlesses, for while they're nice they just don't come into their own in small games. They're the #2 punch, the bodyguards, of the rest of the fleet, not a fleet in themselves.

    The Lunar and Gothic are a nice pairing, but I'd form it up with a Dictator. Gives you some Close Air Patrol (CAP) fighters, and a nice secure post for that Admiral.

    Add in a squadron of four Swords to cover your tails. Brings you in at 795.

    OR, you could ignore that 800 point barrier and use a Mars, with only three Swords. Then you're at 810, and you can give the Chaos player a +1 leadership bonus for being 5 points over him, in return for your Nova Cannon, extra two lances and 15cm more range on your batteries. (Amazing what a difference 5 points can make if you torque it right. :yes: )

    Now keep your fleet together, heat up the Nova, ready the torpedoes and AAF into the heart of that group of Slaughters behind those armored prows. Come to a stop 20 cm away if possible, and unleash a wave of torpedoes that will send them to their cursed gods. Then go mop up the escorts, as he's all done.
    BFG
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    40k
    181st Cadian (1500) (0/1/4)

  7. #6
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    Actually, he was trying out a different fleet setup; and it failed his expectations completely. Today I'm going to be playing him again in another 800point game with admirals and warmasters being left out. Coincidentally we both chose to make carrier fleets this time. My setup being two of my infidel squadrons (one being four strong the other three) and one idolator squadron as well as two devestations. His I believe is two squadrons of the imperial escorts with lances and weapons batteries at three members each, a single dauntless this time around, and two dictators. Won't be getting many kills via bombers this time, or a lucky seven hit bomber shot coupled with a single hit bomber attack...

    Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.

    "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
    Member of the Fluff Masters Clan

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