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Thread: Bounceing Ideas

  1. #1
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Bounceing Ideas

    Ok right now I am working on two warbands for =][= that i would like to run by you all to see if they look generaly kosher. for now we will focus on just the types of units and deal with stats and backgroundlater.

    Warband 1:
    Inquisitor Magos
    Arcoflagelant
    Mutant, spy
    Mutant, demmoliton expert
    Navigator

    Warband 2:
    Inquisitor Lady
    techpreist
    commisar
    ogren
    lay tech adept
    saboture

    Warband 2 will be given to other players, while I will be useing warband 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

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  3. #2
    Inquistor-Missionary Precinct Omega's Avatar
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    1) Welcome! Glad to see another potential recruit visit the Inqusitor board.

    2) What's an "Inquisitor Magos"? The presence of an arcoflagellant is usually a sign of a puritan inquisitor - given that they are on loan from the Ecclesiarchy - so combining that with not two but three mutants (all Navigators are mutants, too) seems a little odd when the overall tone is of a radical group. Perhaps a combat servitor would be more appropriate?

    3) Commissar? How do you plan to model that? And putting an Ogryn in a team is tricky to justify.

    Regards,

    R.

  4. #3
    God's nutcase Xerxes's Avatar
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    And what about the five member warbands? So long as you can deal with the rules that's fine, but games will take a long while to work out.

  5. #4
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Agreed with Xerxes.. I'd probably be inclined to stay with 4 members each.

    I also share POs confusion in wondering what an 'inquisitor magos' is. I really, really don't think Inquisitors are allowed to hold rank in the Adeptus Mechanicus, especially one as high as Magos.. That would compromise their neutrality enormously.

    That said, nothing wrong with a tech savvy, omnisiah fearing inquisitor. Xerxes Inquisitor character is very similar.

    I also agree that the first warband is confused in its composition.. I see no particular theme to it, and as said, the arco-flagelant is definately out of sync. The Ecclesiarchy doesn't trust the navigator houses, and certainly wouldn't think much of an inquisitor who chooses a bunch of mutants for company.

    I'm also wondering how the mutants fit in with the magos thing.. The navigator can sort of be justified as having been hired to pilot a vessel for the inquisitor (but even then, Navigators are hugely wealthy, politically powerful individuals with their own servants and mercenaries at their disposal, it's hard to see one being meekly herded around, even by an inquisitor) but how do the other mutants fit in? If the Inquisitor is mechanicus-ey, wouldn't he see their mutation as further evidence of the weakness and imperfection of the human form and wish to dissasociate himself from them?

    The second warband is okay, but I just can't see any coherency again. The commisar and the ogryn fit together, I guess, as do the techpriest and the lay adept, but as a coherent whole I just don't see how this warband fits together. Also, wouldn't having a commisar in the group make it very difficult for any inquisitor to do their job properly. Commisars don't generally take well to any hint of dissention or questionable activity from anyone around them.

  6. #5
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Inquisitor Magos Jeremiah Navar's Warband


    Magos Navar:

    Magos Navar is one of a rare but growing breed of Inquisitors recruited and trained to investigate rumors of corruption within the Cult Mechanicus. Born to mutant parents he miraculously is untainted and in fact is considerably above average in most respects.

    WS 70
    BS 68
    S 100
    T 65
    I 73
    Wp 87
    Sg 108
    Nv 85
    Ld 85

    Jeremiah is right handed.
    Abilities: Techpreist, Rock steady aim, Leader
    Equipment: Mechadenrites, Chain Axe, Combi-Melta Bolter, Complete Cybernetic Conversion , Servo Skull clouder (one of each type of servo skull).
    Cybernetics;
    Pair of Legs: +2 to armor, ads two yards to all movement rates except crawling and climbing
    Pair of Arms: Strength of 50 each, +2 armor.
    Subdural Cranial Platting: +2 armor on head.
    Cybermetric organ enhancement: +60% on gas and toxin resist rolls. Speed is increased by 1. (bionic lungs, heart, and brain)
    Full Cybernetic Senses, cybernetic eyes incorporate digi needler and range finder.



    Calighary Tehner:

    How the mighty have fallen. Once an influential member of the movement to more fully investigate the Adeptus Mechanicus, now Inquisitor Calighary is a living weapon working for his former apprentice.

    When the Chaos Space Marine seized him in the swirling melee Calighary Tehner honestly believed his life was over. As the psychic powers of his enemy burned and tore his body his last thought was a prayer to the Emperor that his student would exact vengeance upon his foe.

    When he awoke to find himself alive, he was quite perplexed. Blind and all but deaf he began to investigate his surroundings convinced his tormentor had chosen to take him captive rather than kill him. But the room in which he was held sparked memories of his investigations into the rumors of xenos corruption on the forge world of Ryza.

    Soon enough all was explained. In a technical sense, he had been killed. Heart respiratory and brain function had all ceased. However his pupil had placed him in a stasis chest and brought him back to Furon Majoris where he had been resuscitated and surgically reconstructed. Extensive alchemical treatment had restored most of his tissue and the majority of brain function but he would always be far weaker and less capable than he had before his death.

    Inquisitor Caligary soon found that this was even more true than he had imagined. His body was a wreck, it took months for him to be fully reconstructed and even then there were the seizures. His right hand had been sheared from his body and was replaced with a cybernetic attachment mounting. His legs were so mangled that the reconstruction left them more machine than flesh. The worst was his face, both eyes wrenched from their sockets and the flesh flayed to the bone in millimeter thin strips.

    The process he had endured was much akin to the creation of a Arco Flagellant but rather than try to strip his mind the adepts had struggled to restore it. It was a difficult procedure but the unique opportunity was priceless and competition for a place on the procedure team was fierce. Despite difficulties and setbacks Inquisitor Caligary eventually regained full motor control and the bulk of his mental faculties. He has adjusted to his new purpose, having few if any other options.

    Ws 80
    Bs 73
    S 82
    T 86
    I 55
    Wp 71
    Sg 79
    Nv 81
    Ld 50

    Tener is right handed, his trigger phrase is "Ad majorem Imperitor gloriam.".
    Abilities: Furious Assault, Fearsome, Force of Will, Nerves of Steel, Heroic.
    Equipment: Implanted Bolt Pistol, drum feed of 50 rounds; sword, Crude bionic legs, and Average bionic eyes and brain, Reflex gland with enough storage for 20 turns.



    Rogarin, Kal:

    Rogarin is assigned to treat and maintain Inquisitor Caligary's cyberneticly reconstructed body. Though he has yet to realize it he is also Magos Navar's apprentice, slowly being trained to be another Inquisitor Magos.

    Ws 61
    Bs 50
    S 44
    T 63
    I 63
    Wp 73
    Sg 78
    Nv 57
    Ld 55

    Rogarin is left handed.
    Abilities: Techpreist.
    Equipment: Mechadendrites, Heavy robes on all locations except head, Knife, Las pistol.



    Arjune & Kithar:

    Arjune and Kithar are Jeremiah Navars parents. They have been close companions since childhood, and found during their adolescence that their friendly bond slowly changed into a deep romance. After years of hoping and prayers to the Emperor Arjune finally took with child and was delivered of her son Navar and her daughter Sohen.

    When Navar was taken into Inquisitor Caligary's retinue his parents went with him. They accompanied him through his time as a initiate and serve him still as a full Inquisitor. Arjune has become a skilled infiltrator working her way into mutant populations without the slightest ripple and Kithar's skill at the science of demolition is honed to a fine art.


    Arjune,

    Arjune has trained herself to be a cunning infiltrator and can persuade other mutants to side with her. She often works her way into mutant ghettos on worlds that her son is investigating, providing valuable information and contacts.

    Ws 58
    Bs 50
    S 68
    T 62
    I 43
    Wp 50
    Sg 51
    Nv 54
    Ld 49

    Arjune is right handed.
    Abilities: Force of Will, Persuade (other mutants only).
    Equipment: Shotgun ten man-stopper shells and one bolt shell.
    Mutations: Atrophied right leg, -1 to all movement, sprinting is a risky action.



    Kithar,

    Since he was small Kithar has been intrigued by the design and structure of buildings. All his life he has learned everything he could about how they were assembled and designed. Now that his son is a Inquisitor Magos he has put that knowledge to work becoming an expert on how to destroy them.

    Ws 68
    Bs 45
    S 66
    T 68
    I 42
    Wp 54
    Sg 46
    Nv 47
    Ld 51

    Abilities: Ambidextrous, Demolition Expert.
    Equipment: Frag grenades, Club.
    Mutations: Atrophied right leg, -1 to all movement, sprinting is a risky action.



    Sohen Alesahmbra:

    Two little miracles her and her brother, each one should have been a twisted wreck, but both twins were not only normal but better than normal. Sohen did not escape the curse of mutation like her brother but rather has only its beneficial form, she was born with the third eye of a navigator, and because of this was taken from her parents when she was six.

    She was taken to earth where the navigator houses fought bitter campaigns of subterfuge and favor currying to win the prize she represented. A truly new strand of genetics is rarer than Rocs teeth in the intricate tapestry that is the dynastic games of the great navigator houses.

    In the end She was slipped out from under the grasping hands of the great houses by a smaller but more nimble clan. The Alesahmbra know the value of what they saw and with deception and misdirection acquired the slave lady where the greater houses had each blocked one another. They kept her as a brood mare, with contracts for her first six children carried out in under ten years.

    Fifty subjective years after she was taken her brother and parents appeared out of the Void and snatched her away from the Alesahmbra estates. Her brother newly made an Inquisitor had spent several subjective months tracking her down and the clan which had held her captive dared not refuse him. Reunited with her family after years of imprisonment Sohen has been thrust into a life of danger and wandering, while she rejoices at her new freedom the frequent fire-fights are less endearing.

    Ws 24
    Bs 58
    S 37
    T 51
    I 79
    Wp 73
    Sg 80
    Nv 65
    Ld 58

    Abilities: Ambidextrous, Acrobatic, Gunfighter, force of will, cat-fall.
    Equipment: Hexagramic wards, Purity Seals (counts as Pentagramic wards), Matched Dueling Pistols ( two black powder pistols.)
    Psychic Powers: The Lidless Stare
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

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  7. #6
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Nice concepts..

    I still don't think an Inquisitor can be a Magos though.. Inquisitors holding rank in the AM would be a massive conflict of interests. No reason why he can't have technical skills and mechanicus training, but having him as an initiated tech priest, let alone a high ranking figure like a magos, just seems really off to me.

    If nothing else, being a Magos is a full time job.. A magos can't just swan off to hunt heretics whenever he feels like it. There are forge worlds to govern, rituals to preside over, forges to bless, that kind of thing.

    I like the mutant idea, but it really needs some explanation. Bear in mind that the Imperium has extremely rigid standards of spiritual purity, and all but the most open minded of people are going to shun anyone who has any genetic history of mutation. I think you need to play it up more and overcoming the adversity and shame of his birth a much bigger part of the character. I'm also wondering why he takes his parents with him.. surely they're evidence of a shame he'd want to escape.

    The arco flagellent dude is a nice idea.. I like him.

    The father and mother.. Hmm.. Mutants form a slave underclass who toil in factories or farms or other forms of forced labour camp and may spend their entire short, pitiful lives working in one building, there generally isn't really time for developing interests outside of work. While the mutants in inquisitor warbands are supposed to be a little above the norm, these guys just don't sound like they've spent their lives doing forced labour at gunpoint.

    And.. the navigator.. :o

    Navigators don't occur naturally.. They aren't just another mutation.. They were created through genetic experimentation in the distant and forgotten past, and have followed a tightly controlled breeding program ever since. Navigators and humans cannot produce navigator children anway, so there's not even any chance of navigator genes seeping into the general population. to have someone with the navigator gene randomly crop up, especially in a family of random mutants who already somehow produced a healthy son is a Deus Ex Machina too far for me.

    They're nice concepts.. but I think you've taken a route which is far too convenient to be believable.

  8. #7
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Actually I agree with you. Well, on most points. Anything I don't actively disagree with consider it as a given that I think your right and would like help correcting the flaws.

    Some of your concerns however, well sorry to say but Fluff and FACT don't always jive. I don't know how much you know about genetics but I am something of a layman scholar on the subject because I have several genetic disorders.

    Put simply the navigator complex is a hyper specialized genetic mutation. It appears to involve a intricate set of alpha recessives on both chromosomes. This means that if ether parent lacks any of the key geans the mutation will not manifest, however it may be transferred to their children as a recessive. Now this means that theoretically if there were two half navigators there is a remote chance that they could produce full navigator children. Even more remotely is the chance that the remote descendants of half navigators operating in a closed geanpool could slowly accumulate the common navigator recessives until finally children began to be born with warp eyes. The mutant slaves of a large manufactora present an ideal closed population for such a recessive re-accumulation, especially as the appearance of a third eye would not provoke the child's instant death.


    I'm not sure what you mean about Magos not running off to do other things, they do it all the time. The first magos mentioned in inquisitor is gallivanting across the galaxy in search of a device that may or may not exist. Now other than that its a good point, but bear in mind that Jeremiah has to be a Techpreist to fulfill his stated purpose. His job is to investigate corruption within the Adeptus Mechanicus, and to do that he has to know what he is looking at. As I gave him the stat-line of a Magos I gave him the tittle as well. Perhaps the title is an honorific one...

    Thank you for the critical eye, in many ways you echo my own reservations about the design of the character. However I still do not see any way to correct the flaws short of scraping most of the characters outright. Any help you could provide in that direction would be appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

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  9. #8
    God's nutcase Xerxes's Avatar
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    About the Navigator thing...

    Yes, it's not impossible. Yes, it's implausible. That's the problem with it; I seem to remember a rule for sci-fi/fantasy that's basically "claim the impossible, never claim the implausible". The mixture of mutants and benefits that you've got in this set of characters is a bit too convinient to be either believable or well-written enough to be incredible. You've got a perfect child and a Navigator and as a downside you've got two parents who walk funny. It's just a bit too nice and convinient to be anything but deus ex machina/a Mary Sue complex.

    And this may be a touchy subject, but try to disassociate yourself from your characters. I may be reading too much into this, but as you have genetic disorders you may be patching things onto your characters from your own emotional background. It's not generally a good idea if you want them critiqued, as emotions can run high. Just know that we're not critiquing you, we're critiquing your characters. Sorry if this is irrelevant, several amateur writers I've known have had problems making that distinction.

    I'm also not really sure how you justify the stats on the ex-Inquisitor. If his body was all-but destroyed (with no mention of much bionic reinforcement of it, as arco-flagellants don't have much in that line), then how on earth did he get Strength and Toughness values in the 80s without any mention of at least bionics, particularly as you've stated that the main thing they focused on was getting his mind back?

    The whole "magos" deal is a bit weird... was he brought up as a member of the Cult Mechanicus? If so, how did the Inquisition get to him? If not, how did the Mechanicus accept him? I'm not saying it's not possible but just so we know how he got so intimately connected with both organisations. Also, magos is a title awarded for technological achievement, nothing else. I don't think the Mechanicus hand out "honourary doctorates" or anything of they sort, so your character will have needed to work for several decades on the rituals of the mechanicus/discovered something of use for them/done well in the limited field of research available to them. It seems a bit much to do that and keep an eye out for the Inquisition as well.

  10. #9
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
    Put simply the navigator complex is a hyper specialized genetic mutation. It appears to involve a intricate set of alpha recessives on both chromosomes. This means that if ether parent lacks any of the key geans the mutation will not manifest, however it may be transferred to their children as a recessive. Now this means that theoretically if there were two half navigators there is a remote chance that they could produce full navigator children. Even more remotely is the chance that the remote descendants of half navigators operating in a closed geanpool could slowly accumulate the common navigator recessives until finally children began to be born with warp eyes. The mutant slaves of a large manufactora present an ideal closed population for such a recessive re-accumulation, especially as the appearance of a third eye would not provoke the child's instant death.
    Yes, I did study this, although I'm not going to claim to be any kind of expert as I'm a language student and have never really had any reason to pry into genetics.

    However, I think you're flawed in using a real world scientific paradigm to explain a mutation which is, basically, magitech. GW never explains what the navigator mutation is, because fluffwise noone knows, it's completely incomprehensible even with the technical paradigm of the 41st millenium.

    Conventional 21st century genetics also cannot explain why, every time the navigator Patanova dies, random male navigators start to grow into huge mutated monsters and get the sudden urge to kill each other until one is left, however, that's a big part of the navigator fluff too. It also can't explain why the most powerful navigators are those who share the current Patanova's bloodline. A lot of the navigator stuff doesn't make sense.. that's why it's mysterious.

    In any case, you can't just change the fluff because real life physics doesn't work like that. It's like me writing a character for a star wars RPG and claiming that jumping to hyperspace can't work because conventional physics forbids faster than light travel.

    Besides, not all mutations are based on genetic corruption alone.. In the case of navigators, I'm willing to bet the warp has a big influence in making them what they are, since they're so intimately tied to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost
    I'm not sure what you mean about Magos not running off to do other things, they do it all the time. The first magos mentioned in inquisitor is gallivanting across the galaxy in search of a device that may or may not exist.
    But that's his duty to the Adeptus Mechanicus.. He's a full time member of the Adeptus Mechanicus, as befitted by his high ranking title. The search for STCs is a profoundly important task for the Adeptus Mechanicus, akin to a Holy crusade.

    You don't get Inquisitor Cardinals who give sermons then go off to blast heretics, or Inquisitor Astropaths who interpret messages across the stars but moonlight in hunting daemons.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost
    Now other than that its a good point, but bear in mind that Jeremiah has to be a Techpreist to fulfill his stated purpose. His job is to investigate corruption within the Adeptus Mechanicus, and to do that he has to know what he is looking at. As I gave him the stat-line of a Magos I gave him the tittle as well. Perhaps the title is an honorific one...
    I'd argue the opposite.. The fact that he is a techpriest means that's he's superbly unqualified to investigate corruption in the Adeptus Mechanicus. He's one of them. What happens when his duty as a techpriest and the orders he's getting from his mechanicus superiors conflict with those of the Inquisition? How can either side trust him or know where his loyalties lie? Why would either of them even tollerate him if he might be selling them out to the other?

    Given that an Inquisitor has near limitless authority, it seems very reasonable that he could acquire knowledge on the Adeptus mechanicus without gaining membership.

    Now if he's an inquisitor with a cover identity in the Adeptus Mechanicus, then that I can understand, but even then I'd say his rank is too high and denotes an incredibly high degree of responsibility and investment. He's just not going to be able to maintain that cover identity at the same time as being an inquisitor.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost
    Thank you for the critical eye, in many ways you echo my own reservations about the design of the character. However I still do not see any way to correct the flaws short of scraping most of the characters outright. Any help you could provide in that direction would be appreciated.
    Firstly.. the navigator doesn't have to be his sister. In a way, that's almost a sideline of her character anyway since it's entirely unrelated to her role or who she is. She can be a 'caged bird' concept without having been born outside the navigator families. Perhaps she ran away from her family looking for adventure, or perhaps the Inquisitor rescued her from her stilted existence and she travels with him in return. She could even be a love interest who has run away to escape the ire of the family for not being a good little pawn in the genetic gameplan. There are a huge number of doors open there.

    As for the parents, they're fine, just a bit convenient. I think once you take the sister out, the whole Deus Ex Machina of him being a child of mutated parents becomes much more believable. They could just be disguised as innocuous mutants who travel with him, and I doubt anyone would pay them much thought.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; February 15th, 2007 at 15:33.

  11. #10
    Senior Member The_Ghost's Avatar
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    Thank you both for your time. You have given me some first rate advice, now to put it into action.

    @Xerxes: Yes, that’s what has been bothering me about this, none of it is impossible, all of it is implausible. I like the ideas and the work this represents was not insubstantial, but its... not up to snuff, as it were.

    As to the stat-line of the old Inquisitor, it’s the standard stat-line for an Arco Flagellant. Nothing weird or out of the ordinary, though the stats could be changed.

    First born on the forge world of Calisto his genetics was tested like every child for the hidden blueprints encoded into the human genome at the hight of the golden age of technology. The tests found a startlingly high number of fully intact gean codes, and they went looking for him. The search lasted for six years as the manufactory had been raised and the workers reassigned. When they found him they ran a battery of tests and discovered he had good mental potential and was physically sound. He was taken for training as a Techpreist and his parents were again transferred to be used as a control mechanism.

    About 20 years later Inquisitor Caligary came to Calisto and requested examination of a group of eligible Techpreists for induction into his retinue. What the Adepts were not aware of was what he was really testing them for. Jeremiah proved to have the necessary degree of Psycho Personal Flexibility. Caligary took him to be retrained as an Inquisitor and brought his parents to use as leverage. After some 30 odd years of indoctrination Inquisitor Caligary was killed and then resurrected, at which point Jeremiah was promoted to Inquisitor.

    Around that time Jeremiah undergoes the trails to become a fully ranked Exploritor Magos. Or maybe he just claims he’s a Magos, he certainly knows as much as one...



    @Mantis: Your right, Having the navigator be his sister does not make sense, and isn't very helpful to the characters. As of right now that part of the back-story is scraped. Love interest... Hummm, Having visions of the Magos Biologis doing unauthorized experiments to create a child with their DNA and the full navigator complex...

    Also toying with the idea of a Inquisitor Astropath... Would make for an interesting character, one of those heavy psyker inquisitors running about with a force sword, commanding his troops by will alone... Its an interesting image, though not one I plan on pursuing any time soon.

    Now Im not sure why you think that the Adeptus Mechanicus would teach their secrets to an outsider, especially one whose stated purpose is to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law, but that just does not sound likely to me. In fact I thought and still think that the only way to learn the Mechanicus hidden ways would be from the inside. And once in you cant back out, your in for life. Perhaps you can change my mind...
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
    Thought for the Day: Armylists are a three-edged sword. The list your backstory wants. The list that is optimal. The list of models you actually own.
    And HOW.

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    (><) This is Dead Bunny.

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    Imperial Guard: 2250: In Progress.
    Necron: 500: 2/1/1



    Join the Imperium today!

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