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Pokémon Competitive Battling - 4th Generation (maybe some others too)

8K views 54 replies 15 participants last post by  Jormi_Boced 
#1 · (Edited)
Dear all,

This thread is dedicated to competitive battling with Pokémon.

First of all, Pokémon has two sides to it. The first side is a cutesy child's game where you have to run around doing cute things to collect all 493 of Nintendo's critters.

It is not this side we are particularly interested in.

The second side is an in depth and tactical battling game which takes people completely by surprise. Although when playing through the plot of the game, you find it frustrating that they can only learn 4 move, when you get into competitive battling you soon become glad that they can only learn 4 moves, as any more would make the game ridiculously complex.

This is the side which this thread aims to concentrate on.

The aim is to reign victorious over your adversary through the subtle use of not only your chosen Pokémons' moves, but also their typing, their innate abilities and their held items.

This is only skimming the surface of it. But suffice to say that, without doubt, it is more complex than both Warhammer 40K or Fantasy Battle.

In Pokémon there are few 'dice' rolls to be made. You know how your team works together and you know the threats out there and how to respond to them. If you don't, then you'll fail.

So yes, please use this thread to swap friend codex and discuss competitive battling.

This is not a thread for abuse - if you don't understand Pokémon then I suggest you either ask politely in this thread or go back to dice and plastic figures. LO does not put up with senseless abuse, and no exception will be made for this thread. Any posts which aren't within the spirit of the thread will be deleted immediately. Abuse will de dealt with according to our standard policies.

Otherwise, have fun and enjoy the ride :)

Karmoon

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RESOURCES:
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SMOGON UNIVERSITY - List of Pokémon

Pokémon - Smogon University

This is a great list of some example competitive movesets.

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PAL CODES:
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Karmoon: (Papa K) 2277 6940 9785
 
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#2 ·
I've been competitive battling since Ruby and Sapphire, but have been playing since the dawn of Pokemon. The moment I learned of the games "hidden" intricacies my love for Pokemon grew ten-fold. I really like the feeling of accomplishment you get from taking hours to breed and train a solid Pokemon. The art form of predicting in battling as well as the team design process are also huge elements of interest for me. I tend to try to use Pokemon that might not be super standardized. Here are a few that I have been using lately, comments and criticism is greatly welcomed.

Arcanine @ Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
-Overheat
-Dragon Pulse
-Hidden Power Grass
-Extremespeed

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
-Focus Punch
-Waterfall
-Double Edge
-Aqua Jet

Hopefully we can develop a decent group of people to play with and share ideas!
 
#4 ·
Are you only talking about in Gold and Silver?

If not, in 4th generation Solarbeam is a special attack, and Sacred Fire is physical, might not want to split them up. Also, might be good to use Groudon for the Sunny day effect if that is an option, would free up the use of another attack.
 
#5 ·
Moltres got really hammered by stealth rock too huh?

Plus with the amount of stuff running around with stone edge and thunderbolt - not very pretty :)

Arcanine @ Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
-Overheat
-Dragon Pulse
-Hidden Power Grass
-Extremespeed
I really like this special Arcanine, any clue as to the EV spread? Speed and Spattack I'm guessing...
 
#6 ·
Im afraid all the experience i have is with the Red/Blue and Gold/Silver generations.

Well, not quite true, i once played through Sapphire in one day, on an emulator at 1000% speed, and got a full team of legendaries no problem. Save states are so broken lol.

There are a number of FAQs online which contain great hints on tactical Pokemon movesets.

One i remember loving from Re/Blue was the unstoppable Mewtwo. Psychic, Recover and Substitute. Add a 4th move of your choice, but those 3 are all you need :)
 
#7 ·
I won't be joining the 4th gen crowd until Platnium gets around to coming out, but I've walked the line of recreational and competitive playing since back in the day. Back in R/B/Y I was a big fan of the Thunder Wave/Agility/Wrap/Hyper Beam Dragonite and its equivalents.
 
#8 ·
You guys should definitely try 4th generation, when it's ready of course.

The biggest change is the fact that a certain type attack can be split into physical and special.

So Fire Punch (which used to always be special and thus found on Gengar and Alakazam) is now phsyical, so suddenely Hitmonchan is happy, and Alakazam is very sad.

On the flip side, Ghost attacks used to be physical, but now Shadow Ball is special, which makes Gengar quite scary with it (especially with the nice STAB bonus too).

Also, you'll need to get used to Natures, Abilities and hold items too.

These really add to the depth of the game :D
 
#9 ·
Karmoon said:
The biggest change is the fact that a certain type attack can be split into physical and special.
Ahh the single change that's riddled my 3rd Gen teams with wtf. Half of my Litle critters are geared up for the change and half are somewhere behind the curve. And then there are the ones that want to know what I was on when I chose their moveset.
 
#10 ·
Team to rate

Ok, I have a team I need help with :)

This is a kind of semi competitive team. The only limit we have is no legendaries, and use Pokémon that you like. Here it is:

Lopunny @ Iron Orb/Flame Orb/Lagging Tail
Klutz.
EVS: HP:252 SPEED: 252 ATTACK:4

Ice Punch
Switcheroo
Agility
Baton Pass

The comedy lead of the team. I am determined that she will be able to do something just to prove one of my friends wrong.
The aim is to mess about with switcheroo and then agility and baton pass to:

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Over Grow
Bold EVS: 252HP/252Special Defence/4 Speed
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
Energy Ball
Sludge Bomb

Good old reliable Venusaur. Easy to switch in, and can put the pain on stuff. With a baton passed agility he will be an incredibly fast sleeper.

Houndoom @ Charcoal
Flash Fire
Modest EVS: 252 Spattack/252 Speed/4 HP

Flame Thrower
Roar
Dark Pulse
Nasty Plot

Simply because i like him. He's not the fastest in the game, but with an agility he's a sweeping powerhouse. If he can get a nasty plot off too... heh heh.

Gengar @ Expert Belt
Levitate
Modest Nature EVS:252 Spattack/252 Speed/4 HP

Shadow Ball
Thunder Bolt
Focus Punch
Hypnosis/Energy Ball

Gengar hits hard and fast. Good for the mix up after the initial two Pokémon have been dealt with by the enemy. Additionally, although it's overkill, I can't imagine much out speeding a Genger with agility.

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Sand Stream
Adamant Nature EVS:252 Attack/252 HP/4 Speed

Stone Edge
Crunch
Dragon Dance
EQ

Just when they think they might be ok, this is when the final two PKMN come out. Firstly T-Tar. Who is big, ugly and scary. He also hits very hard, and a STABed stone edge doesn't make anyone happy. He'll Dragon Dance when he can. This guy is also a potential receiver of a baton passed agility.
T-Tar is also my weather controller just in case I don't like what's going on or there's some nasty sunny day/rain dancing going on.

Garchomp @ ????
Sand veil
Jolly Nature EVS:252 ATTACK/252 Speed/4HP

Earthquake
Outrage
Swords Dance
Fire fang

Just when they think they're save from T-Tar, A nice Garchomp comes along to take over. This guy needs no set up. I don't really want to give him a choice item, as he might be the last one, so if he gets stuck doing an earthquake on a Gengar or something, that'd be embarrassing.
Plus, if he gets a chance to swords dance, even walls are going to have troubles against him.
 
#11 ·
I think it is a pretty cool team, however I would change a few things on these Pokemon:

Gengar @ Wide Lens
Levitate
Modest Nature EVS:252 Spattack/252 Speed/4 HP

-Shadow Ball
-Thunder Bolt
-Focus Blast
-Hypnosis

Wide Lens will help offset the accuracy of Focus Blast and Hypnosis, which is awesome. Focus Punch is good, but using Focus Blast allows you to rely on that massive special attack as well.


Garchomp @ Bright Powder
Sand veil
Jolly Nature EVS:252 ATTACK/252 Speed/4HP

-Substitute
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Swords Dance

Since you have a Tyranitar in the lineup why not take advantage of his lovely trait? The Brightpowder and Sand Veil coupled should net you I think 28% evasion, which on this beast is awesome. You should have no problems setting up a substitute and getting in a swords dance, from that point it is easy sweeping.

Houndoom @ Life Orb
Flash Fire
Modest EVS: 252 Spattack/252 Speed/4 HP

-Flame Thrower
-Will-O-Wisp
-Dark Pulse
-Nasty Plot

Houndoom has always had a place in my heart. He is pretty fast and can hit hard, but he is not too sturdy. For that reason I think that Roar, which always goes last, is a poor choice here. Will-O-Wisp is just a great all around move, and the burn effect helps with physical defense too.

The Venusaur is awesome, I use the same one, he's so great. Dragon Dancing Tyranitar is quite the beast as well. I am worried about Lopunny, but I know you like the promiscuous rabbit. You might do better with a Jolteon or Ninjask for speed passing though.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for your help Esco!

Good call on the wide lens!
I actually meant to type Focus Blast, but for some reason I typed Focus Punch!

I have no idea why. heh heh.

I totally concur on the roar with Houndoom. Good call on WoW.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the sub on the G'chomp. Simply because, even with swords dance, won't ge just get walled in by Bronzong and Skarmory?

I know that Houndoom should crucify those two, but just incase... would fire fang not be better?

In a serious team, of course Lopunny would be straight out for Jolteon, Espeon or Ninjask, but... she's like a play boy bunny Pokémon. I feel I owe it to someone or something to use her. heh heh.

Either way, thanks!
 
#13 ·
Somebody mind telling me how this all works? Do you guys have local club nights and battle it out? Or is this some kind of new medium?

I've always been a fan, played through Blue Version, then most of Gold. Played the card game for most of my childhood. No DS so I haven't played the newer versions.

Anyway, just curious.
 
#15 ·
As Phoenix said, it can be done either wirelessly or via Nintendo Wi-Fi (over the internet basically).

It's a powerful medium, and I've traded Pokémon with people from all over the world. A pretty cool feeling. heh heh.

If you're a fan of the original generations and Gold, then I'd strongly recommend 4th Generation. At first I was put off by some of the Pokémon designs and what not.. also there's 490+ of them too. But, I must say, as I got into it, it felt just I was playing an old school Pokémon game. It's really quite involving with the Poketch applications and dual screen heh heh.

As for the competitive battling side... well, saying it's got more depth than Warhammer wasn't a joke in anyway. The game system has had significant boosts. For anyone who likes to think and likes any form of strategy, 4th generation Pokémon is where it's at.
 
#17 ·
Ok, I am starting to see now. :?

I was actually heavily considering buying a DS this summer while I'm working and have the money to do so.

I too was put off by the latest pokemon designs, I saw them as too "cartoonish" and less realistic, or to put it simply, they just didn't look that cool. Which games are the ones being played right now? What's a good one to buy?

@Esco - Thanks for your efforts, I'll be looking forward to that post.
 
#18 ·
Well, here's the list that I was thinking of using.

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Modest nature
Thunder Wave
Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Wish
EVed in Sp. Attack and Speed

Roserade @ Choice Specs
Timid nature
Leaf Storm
Shadow Ball
Sleep Powder
Sludge Bomb
EVed in Sp. Attack and Speed

Salamence @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Flamethrower
Rock Slide
EVed in Attack and Speed

Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Stealth Rock
Ice Shard
EVed in Attack and Speed

Aggron @ Chesto berry
Relaxed nature
Stone Edge
Rest
Avalanche
Iron Head
EVed in HP and Defense

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Careful nature
Thunderpunch
Shadow Sneak
Pain Split
Will-O-Wisp
EVed in HP and Sp. Defense


By the way, I would just like to say that Charizard would have been in there, as he's my fav Poémon, only for Game Freak nerfed him with Stealth Rock. :(
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Session One: EV Training!

Effort Values

Effort Values, or EV’s, are one of the hidden game mechanics in Pokemon. They can be used to train a Pokemon for a specific role, increasing their stats in certain areas. At the basic level, this is achieved by battling against Pokemon whose strongest stat is the one you wish to increase, however there is more to it than that.

I mentioned that EV’s are a hidden mechanic, meaning you can not access them in the manner you check your Pokemon’s Hit Points, or Experience Points. The only way to actually track your EV’s is to manually record them. EV’s are also only generated from Pokemon battles in which you net experience, so unfortunately you can’t just have at it with your friends to net them.

Let’s say that you have a Growlithe. Every Pokemon has a base level statistic for each of its stats. Growlith has a base attack of 70.

So we take our Growlithe, and we battle him against four Machops, who we know have attack as their best stat. There is a chart, which details how many EV’s a specific Pokemon will give you, I will tell you that Machop gives you one Attack EV. After beating these Machops, we now have four Attack EV’s on our Growlithe. So now, the next time you level up your Growlithe, he will gain one additional point in his attack stat, than he normally would have. This is because every four EV’s, you gain one permanent statistic bonus. There is a limit in place to keep you from just fighting your way up to max stats. The total number of EV’s any one Pokemon can ever get is 510. Which would net you a total of 64 total stat points. However to prevent all 64 from going to a single stat, they also limit EV’s to 255 per statistic, so that you can only ever obtain a maximum of 32 in any single stat.

Now if we wanted to max out our Growlithe’s attack EV’s, we would need to battle 255 machops, which to say the least, is quite a large number of Machops to machoke…Thank goodness that there are a few solid shortcuts. The vitamins that they sell in shops, or you find: HP UP, Protein, Iron, Calcium, Zinc, and Carbos all net you 10 EV’s for the matching statistic. A limit of ten vitamins per stat is in place however. They have to make you work for it a little bit… The macho Brace item will double the amount of EV’s you obtain from a battle, which is also really handy. The power item series form Diamond and Pearl add a set number of 4 EV’s for the corresponding stat which greatly speed up the process. Also if you are lucky enough to nab the Pokerus disease on a Pokemon, its effect doubles the amount of EV’s as well.

Now a thing to note is that experience is shared equally between Pokemon in a battle, but EV’s are not. Any Pokemon who receives any experience in a battle will receive the full allotment of EV’s. This can make it a lot easier to EV train Pokemon with similar interests. Just give one of them the EXP Share, and bam, you are working double time.

Word of caution goes out to using Rare Candies to level you up though. They do not take EV’s into the calculation when you go up a level, so make sure you are finished EV training prior to using them. Simply gain the last level naturally after you are done EV training, and once you have, your EV’s will all be calculated in, feel free to Rare Candy away!
 
#22 ·
It was introduced in 3rd Generation I believe.

DVs have generally started being referred to IVs too I think...

Easiest way to work those out is with 100 rare candy (just don't save your game after using them >_<)
 
#23 ·
Actually, DV's are Dynamic Values and refer to things that are within a Pokemon that alter its statistics. Such as levels, or personality.

IV's are Individual Values, and they range on a scale between 1 and 31, and basically represent a small spread of stat points in which any Pokemon of the same type can differ stat wise.

Each IV is linked to a specific stat, similar to EV's. The higher the IV for a stat, the higher that stat would be compared to a Pokemon of the same type and level.

For instance if you have two level 5 Growlithes, and the first had a Attack IV of 1, and the second had an Attack IV of 31 you would see a difference in their attack stats. Each point of IV is one point of stat.

So going off the base attack of 70, you would have one Growlithe who has an attack of 71 and one with an attack stat of 101. Quite the difference.

Sadly, IV's are set at the time of encountering the Pokemon, or when the Egg is created. So the only real way to obtain a Pokemon with great IV's is either by luck, or mass breeding.
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the correction about IVs and DVs! :)

IVs can be really important for certain builts... like specifically aiming for a Pokemon with 404 hitpoints so it can use a substitute which won't be broken with a single Sizemic Toss from a Blissey or something.
 
#28 ·
I'm too cheap to afford Wifi, so i play shoddy battle. I'm Rannon Boah on their, because Boah! Boah! Boah!

I love sandstorm teams, but since everyone uses them, meh.

Trying to make a good Raindance team to counter all the sandstorm teams. stupid gyarados with 4x electric weakness...
 
#30 ·
Well it starts out with, "Hey, I want to find out how to get past this thing, maybe I should go online for help" *Goes online* "Holy ****! Evs, Ivs, better moves and whatnot! ad competitive battling! I want in!"

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Of course I have no clue about how they originally found out about it, maybe it was nintendo itself that gave us the slip or people who go into the games coding and put it online.
 
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