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Tabletop wargame online

969 views 2 replies 2 participants last post by  Samuin 
#1 ·
Hello everyone.
I would like to ask the opinion of this community about a project i’m going to start with my team.
We are willing to build an 3D online game to capture the feel of the classic tabletop miniature wargames, using static models with base and dice rolls to keep it as true as possible.
The basic idea is to inspire the setting loosely on Warhammer 40k , let’s say a dark gothic sci fi setting, and we are working to design a good game system to make it as deep as possible but not overly complicated.
My questions are :
  • Do you think being a new IP , not connected with any famous tabletop game, will detract much in terms of interest in our game ?
  • As a community devoted to this wonderful hobby , do you have any suggestion to give us in terms of features, mechanics or whatsoever you would like to see implemented in a game like this ?
We want to make something everyone with this passion could enjoy despite problems such as few available time, no place to play or small to no players in one’s local area.
We are trying to get as much feedbacks and involvement as possible from the community.


Thanks a lot for taking the time to read this post.


Looking forward to your comments.
 
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#2 ·
There are already systems out there for gamers to play tabletop games on their PCs, and these systems are generic - allowing players to use their own rules, measures, etc. While they're not tied specifically to licensed IPs like Warhammer Fantasy or 40k, they allow people to play them. And this brings me to my answer to your first question:

Can we compete without an IP?
My gut reaction is no. There are already PC/Online strategy games out there, both Real-Time and Turn Based, and unfortunately, they probably have a much larger budget and design studio to play with. Furthermore, there are already perfectly good, "static model, base, and dice" games out there which can be played on the tabletop. So who are you catering to? Because the generic game systems cater to the guys who want to play their tabletop games on the PC, and the other stuff caters to the strategy players.

Of course, you have to understand that I'm the kind of guy who doesn't "get" why people are so in love with online card-gaming, like 'M:tG Duels' and the new 'Hearthstone' game. Particularly with the "online only" games like Hearthstone, which don't have an 'in the flesh' proxy for it.

What Features to Include
You really need a "hook" for this. The solid models and dice will do it for the "hipster-esque" people, because it's "vintage", but it's not going to convert the guys who are already playing TTGs or online RTSs. You need to do something that will bring in those people, beyond just "hey, Warhammer is expensive and this game can be played anywhere".
Personally, if I were doing it, I'd make it 'Free to Play' (with such a simple layout, there's no reason why it shouldn't be), and then do the things that traditional TTGs can't:

1 - Play By Post: traditional TTGs take hours, and RTSs can only be played in single-sessions. Let players fight at their own speed, maybe with a time-limit of some kind (if you don't take your turn within 24hrs, you forfeit the game, etc - bonus points if you let players select this speed themselves when choosing opponents).

2 - Give units a game-to-game progression: Let players "collect" any of the different armies. They start out with a Commander and small selection of units, but as they play, they accrue experience points to unlock new units, as well as having their units become more advanced. Maybe each unit gets a "Heroic Level" as their ultimate upgrade, becoming some kind of named unit which features in the game's lore. Something like:
Eld Scouts -> Eld Marksmen -> Eld Elite Snipers -> Talons of Endrasil
Let players move back down through these levels at will though, so that they can play smaller/basic games if they want. I hate that as I play 'World of Tanks', the more I advance along the tech tree, the "higher tier" my games become - I start off at Tier 1, but now that all of my T1 tanks are gone, I can only play T6 games.

3 - Let players interact with the community: Again, RTSs and TTGs both only allow you to interact with your immediate opponent. Allow players to do stuff within the larger group. I wouldn't want to see MMO style 'factions', because I hate being locked into a situation where I might lose because my faction attracts all the noobs (alliance, in WoW), or be locked into playing a single army. However, maybe players can farm out units they aren't using to be "Mercenaries". Those Mercenaries would gain extra experience, but there would be some risk involved (maybe if they suffer casualties, you have to pay something to recover them). Let players set a price, and a minimum rank required for other commanders to draft them. That would also let newer players who haven't unlocked the more advanced tiers of a unit, a chance to use that unit their games if they pay the amount to hire the mercs.
Auction Houses for items on your commanders, and options to play allied games or even huge multi-player games (perhaps organized by the people who run the game).

5 - Bigger tables: This kind of goes hand-in-hand with the multiplayer thing, but currently, TTGs are limited by space. Games are usually on 4x4' or 6x4' tables, and I can't run anything too much larger without clearing out the garage. But, when I did clear out the garage, the game was awesome. Do something like that for your players. Especially if you have play by post, and the players can afford to spend more than a 6-turn game getting into combat. Give them big battlefields to explore - with areas which grant bonuses or rules, and scatter some loot around for them to find.
 
#3 · (Edited)
First of all , thank you for taking the time to give your point of view.

We are aware of open engines in the like of Vassal, but what are we working on is building up a new game/IP , with our own world, fluff, armies and rules. We are not going to compete versus the big studios of the AAA industry, that would be a lost cause. What we can do is create something new in term of approach to the genre. The open engines are pretty much only for very passionate TT/BG players, and , while catering to a great userbase thanks to the customization of the system, they are still real niche products. On the other side we have triple A games that cater to a total different userbase, almost everyone out there, lately, is going towards mass simplification of their systems, trying to get more into the "casual" userbase. I think there's a whole world in between we could cater to, an audience that lay in the middle, people that enjoy a well designed wargame, micromanagement of armies, deep strategy, but don't have the resources (Time, money, art skill, space) to devote himself to a classic TT. Also i think we can cater to the whole Vassal-like userbase and push it further offering a product that through an appealing graphic and rules enforcement can be easily played by more people and maybe, why not , meanwhile create interest towards classic TT/BG.


Of course, you have to understand that I'm the kind of guy who doesn't "get" why people are so in love with online card-gaming, like 'M:tG Duels' and the new 'Hearthstone' game. Particularly with the "online only" games like Hearthstone, which don't have an 'in the flesh' proxy for it.
Well, nothing can replace the feeling of playing a game in real, but i also have to say that i work way over 12 hours a day (Actual work and side projects) plus i have a family, and we moved far from our native town a few years ago. Well if it wasn't for games like Heartstone , the only way to play a match would be playing vs myself. So i can understand what you mean, but there are many different situations, and not everyone have the luck to be able to keep up with their passion/hobby.


I would not go into monetization issue at this very moment, but claiming that going free for a full product is the only way, could be a bit naive. I don't think people will love to download it free with 3 units available and pay to get stronger one (It's just an example of standard F2P monetization). I think eventually a classic premium product will work out better and will not present any issues of P2W practice.

1 - Play By Post: traditional TTGs take hours, and RTSs can only be played in single-sessions. Let players fight at their own speed, maybe with a time-limit of some kind (if you don't take your turn within 24hrs, you forfeit the game, etc - bonus points if you let players select this speed themselves when choosing opponents).
You are quite to the point here. We eventually want to make the game scalable , from skirmish to epic battle, and let the player choose, for the PVP side of things, how much a turn can last from 1 min up to 24hrs. So you can have multiple games opened and play each of the in the timeframe you will feel more comfortable with.


2 - Give units a game-to-game progression: Let players "collect" any of the different armies. They start out with a Commander and small selection of units, but as they play, they accrue experience points to unlock new units, as well as having their units become more advanced. Maybe each unit gets a "Heroic Level" as their ultimate upgrade, becoming some kind of named unit which features in the game's lore. Something like:
Eld Scouts -> Eld Marksmen -> Eld Elite Snipers -> Talons of Endrasil
Let players move back down through these levels at will though, so that they can play smaller/basic games if they want. I hate that as I play 'World of Tanks', the more I advance along the tech tree, the "higher tier" my games become - I start off at Tier 1, but now that all of my T1 tanks are gone, I can only play T6 games.
We will work deeply on units management, customization and progression, i can assure you.

3 - Let players interact with the community: Again, RTSs and TTGs both only allow you to interact with your immediate opponent. Allow players to do stuff within the larger group. I wouldn't want to see MMO style 'factions', because I hate being locked into a situation where I might lose because my faction attracts all the noobs (alliance, in WoW), or be locked into playing a single army. However, maybe players can farm out units they aren't using to be "Mercenaries". Those Mercenaries would gain extra experience, but there would be some risk involved (maybe if they suffer casualties, you have to pay something to recover them). Let players set a price, and a minimum rank required for other commanders to draft them. That would also let newer players who haven't unlocked the more advanced tiers of a unit, a chance to use that unit their games if they pay the amount to hire the mercs.
Auction Houses for items on your commanders, and options to play allied games or even huge multi-player games (perhaps organized by the people who run the game).
We want the game to be not only competitive but also cooperative in multiplayer mode. We are looking out for different solution as well as implementing tournament ang guild not necessarely linked to a specific army/faction. The latter will work more as social hub.

5 - Bigger tables: This kind of goes hand-in-hand with the multiplayer thing, but currently, TTGs are limited by space. Games are usually on 4x4' or 6x4' tables, and I can't run anything too much larger without clearing out the garage. But, when I did clear out the garage, the game was awesome. Do something like that for your players. Especially if you have play by post, and the players can afford to spend more than a 6-turn game getting into combat. Give them big battlefields to explore - with areas which grant bonuses or rules, and scatter some loot around for them to find.
Space will not be an issue and map size will be scalable based on the army size. Epic sized maps for epic sized armies.


I hope to have cleared some points and hopefully make someone of you interested in our project.

Sorry for my english, i know it isn't perfect.
 
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