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  1. #1
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    New to Protectorate

    Hey there. I just recently started Warmachine, and I am hooked. I've decided on Menoth, and I've got a unit of temple flameguard, a unit of deliverers, a sunburst artillery thingie, a unit of knights exemplar, an avatar of Menoth, a Crusader, and a Revenger, a guardian, as well as an exemplar seneschal, a unit of fanatics, and a monolith bearer.

    I need to get a caster next. I was thinking of running a very 'jack heavy list for my first few games, basically my guardian, crusader, revenger, a unit of fanatics, my caster, and maybe my Avatar.

    I would like some advice about warcasters. I like Kreoss, his feat and his powers. The only other one I was looking at was the harbinger, because the massive focus she has would be good for a 'jack heavy list, but her feat is bad.

    So, should I get a unit of choir next? Or something else?

    --LittleBlueMan

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  3. #2
    Forward Kommander Blood_Blade's Avatar
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    If you want to run a 'jack heavy list, I would suggest High Executioner Servath Reznik. He's an absolute beast, and has some great synergy with 'jacks.

    One suggestion I have, if you're going for more than 1 'jack in a list, would be to get a full Choir, as they are excellent in what they can provide you and your 'jacks with.
    Quote Originally Posted by MiketehFox View Post
    Ze KHADORANS vill Krush other puny factions into ze Dust! Then vill spread on Sandvich and eat! MMMMMmmmm...

  4. #3
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    Allright, I've worked up an army list for wednesday.

    Any responses about it being legal/competitive would be nice and met with rep.

    High Exemplar Kreoss

    Gaurdian Heavy Warjack
    Crusader Heavy Warjack
    Revenger Light Warjack

    Full Choir of Menoth
    Minimum Zealots w/Monolith bearer
    Minimum Temple Flameguard

    This is 498 Points. I like the way it looks. My theory is to fun my zealots and flameguard up and assault the enemy, holding them in place and pinning them with shield wall/invincibility/unbreakability. Then my light warjack and heavy warjacks get in, pulling Kreoss' drop and pop strategy.
    With the choir, I should be safe in my advances.

    Next, for the 750 point level, I've added:
    4 Additional Zealots
    Knights Exemplar
    The Avatar of Menoth

    I have 16 points left over.
    I could pull one choir of menoth down an extra choir member, and get two choirs, or a Sunburst launcher.

    Not sure. Right now, I'm just leaving it.
    Responses will be met with rep.
    Also, if someone could tell me if I am allowed ot use the Avatar of Menoth in this list, as I'm not exactly sure if he is legal.
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  5. #4
    Drills baby. Da Mighty Camel's Avatar
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    The Avatar is legal as long as you select a Warcaster to control him.

    As for the lists, I think the first one could work well enough. I have little experience with the Menites. Minimum units are quite easy to kill off, but I think you should give the list a try.

    Can't comment on 750, have no experience with it.

  6. #5
    Forward Kommander Blood_Blade's Avatar
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    I like the 500 pts list, although I would consider switching the Guardian with a Devout. Defensive Strike is brutal, and it is really nasty on a defensive front with the choir. Also, I often see our local Menoth player brining the Vanquisher as his main heavy, as with the +2 attack +2 damage choir, its cannon becomes really nasty, so I'll endorse this guy rather than the one dimensional Crusader.

    If you make these 2 changes you'll have 44 pts left over. With these points I would fill out your zelots to full (as they are can really dish out pain with the Monilith bearer) and also 3 more flameguard as bigger squads = more damage.

    As for your tactic, I'd reconsider. Your 'jacks are your heavy hitters. If your infantry run off and engage the enemy, chances are they'll be dead before the 'jacks engage the enemy. (I'd also mention that you can't charge and shieldwall, nor can you shieldwall on a turn you're engaged in combat) I would hold the infantry back, use the flameguard as a shieldwalling blocker for you're caster and the choir, and use the zelots to make sure that the enemy can't out-flank you, or get behind the shieldwall.

    +++EDIT+++
    As for the 750 pts list, if I were to start over agian, I would suggest that you have too many 'jacks (sad as it is). Kreos as a 7 Foc caster just doesn't have the power, or synergy, to run 3 heavy's and a light. If you were really set on these jacks, I would and grab a reclaimer, as he'll help somewhat with the focus issue (and he's 16 pts :p). I'm also kinda iffy on the Knights Examplar, try them out and tell us how they do.

    As you know my thoughts on the 'jacks (I wouldn't add any from the ones I suggested at 500 pts) I'll just suggest what I'd consider adding to this list: More flameguard, as DMC said, mini squads are easy to kill, and the more infantry you have, the better the reclaimer will do (well eventually). A full/8 man squad of these guys is just nasty to face. A second chior would defanitly be nice, as you now have extra bodies (if needed), and another choir (if the leader in one squad is assassinated). A Seneschal is also a good investment to look into, his combo attack in mele is mint against 'jacks as they don't expect a small based model to slam them. Also, hes hard to kill and keep down as he heals himself when people die.
    Last edited by Blood_Blade; March 31st, 2008 at 18:15.
    Quote Originally Posted by MiketehFox View Post
    Ze KHADORANS vill Krush other puny factions into ze Dust! Then vill spread on Sandvich and eat! MMMMMmmmm...

  7. #6
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I like the idea of the vanquisher, but I don't have the model yet.
    I agree about the min/max ideas for the units. I'll see what I can do when I get back.
    Thanks for the replies.
    Also, the Avatar of Menoth generates his own focus each turn, so the worry about kreoss being overstretched isn't that big of a deal.
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  8. #7
    Drills baby. Da Mighty Camel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Blade View Post
    nor can you shieldwall on a turn you're engaged in combat)
    Sure you can. As long as enough models can move into close formation.

    BB made some really good points there. Listen to him.

    Also, let us now how it goes and good luck!

  9. #8
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    Allright. One last question, can they shield wall on a turn in which they charge, providing they are all in contact. Can they then combine attack?
    I got killed very badly in a game against another protectorate player.
    Then I played a Khador player, and surrendered because we were running out of time and I wanted bonded warjacks. It turned out I would have one as his Sorscha ran up to frozen Kreoss and whiffed all her attacks, and then 7 focus Kreoss killed her very very dead. It was gratifying, but not good for my local league.

    I've discovered this: my units need to be bigger, and 500 points is very limiting.
    Especially when I am comitted to 3 jacks. Can I run the avatar in a 500 point game? Wait, that doesn't help. The question stands though.
    Thanks for the input guys. Also, can any of you recommend a good Warmaching forum (other than PP's).
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  10. #9
    Drills baby. Da Mighty Camel's Avatar
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    You cannot charge and shield wall the same turn (unless you are Khador and have the IFP unit attachment, which lets them form a shield wall at the end of their activation, once per game), since both are orders and a unit can only be affected by one order per turn.

    How did he fail with all of her attacks if Kreoss was forzen? ;o

    And, I summed up your list in Armies of Immoren and I got it to 519pts. Sure you alculated it correctly?

    At the moment, you are investing a lot of points in your 'jacks (316pts) which limits the rest of your force. I am tempted to drop the Crusader and just use the Avatar and the Revenger. For the points you could beef up your units, get the Flameguard a unit attachment and perhaps buy a solo or something.

    Perhaps this list?
    Faction: Protectorate of Menoth
    Army Points: 499/500
    Victory Points: 19
    • High Exemplar Kreoss
      • Avatar of Menoth
      • Revenger
      Wrack
      Wrack
      Wrack
      Choir of Menoth (6)
      Holy Zealots (9)
      • Monolith Bearer
      Temple Flameguard (
      • Temple Flameguard Officer and Standard Bearer

  11. #10
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    I was over? Oops.
    Oh well. I've made a new list. Per your advice, and my revenger doing nothing ever, I dropped him totally from the list and got a unit of knights exemplar.

    Here is my list.

    Kreoss-64

    Guardian Heavy Warjack-126
    Crusader Heavy Warjack-93

    Choir of Menoth (full)-22
    Zealots w/ Monolith Bearer and an extra trooper-69 points.
    Temple Flameguard-53
    Knights Exemplar-69

    With this 500 point list, every unit (short of the choir) is a threat to enemy warjacks, especially the Cygnar variety.

    Hopefully I can get a charge with the Knights Exemplar.


    His Sorscha hit with 1 attack, boosted damage, but I had 7 focus on Kreoss, and only a tiny amount of damage was caused. Then she tried to cast the spell where she freezes an opponent, and rolled double 1's. Now Sorscha had no focus and Kreoss had full focus. She died very, very fast.

    Thanks for your replies. I am going to buy a TFG standard bearer, but I don't have the money right now. Also, I don't have any Wracks.
    Last edited by LittleBlueMan; April 5th, 2008 at 04:41.
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