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Hi, I'm just starting Khador (I've picking up the Khador starter set and Widowmakers tomorrow) and I had a few questions:
1. If a warcaster is knocked down, can he still cast spells? According to the rules, on his turn he must either give up his movement or action in order to stand, but it makes no reference to spells. On that note, what if they're frozen? Let's say Sorsha's power freezes the enemy warcaster. Can they still cast spells? Can they distribute focus?
2. How much terrain should be on the board? I'm accustomed to 40k, but I'm not sure if Warmachine traditionally favored more or less terrain, by comparison.
3. I'm not sure if I should get a set of Man-o-war or Pikemen. Looking at the statistics alone, the pikemen seem superior, but I admittedly don't know if I'm understanding all the implications. How are these units best used in play?
4. Assuming I use Sorsha, the two starter jacks, widowmakers, and either a man-o-war team or pikemen, what would round out that list well? I was thinking of a mortar team, but I hear good things about Manhunters and the Winter Guard as well. Any suggestions?
I'm a Khadoran myself and I'll see if I can answer your questions...
1. Once the 'caster stands up, they can cast spells as they are not actions. This is explained in the Knocked down-paragraph in Prime: Remix.
As for being stationary, read under Stationary models in Prime: Remix since it says exactly what you can or cannot do.
2. If you divide the board into four quarters, I would say one terrain element (ruin, woods, rocks, hills, etc.) is enough for each quarter. You can use some linear obstacles here and tehre as well. Generally, WM benefits from not having too much terrain and a lot of terrain in the middle of the board favours certain factions and disrupts the gameplay, I think.
3. Man-o-War Demo corps are great. I recommend them, as do all Khador players. And IFPs with the Unit Attachment is a staple infantry unit of the Khadoran army. I would go for the IFPs first (full unit, ie. pack of 6 + blister and Unit Attachment), really.
If you are referring to MoW Shocktroopers, I would stay away from them initially since they are very expensive and somewhat difficult to make effective.
4. First thing I would buy, the Khador card pack. It gives you all the stats for all the Khador units up to Superiority, with updated artwork and wording on the cards. Then, IFPs with teh Unit Attachment. I also recommend a 5-man squad of Demo corps and perhaps a mortar or two.
Greylord Ternions are excellent support magicians. Khador's swiss army knife! The Manhunter is an excellent and cheap solo. A real beatstick.
If you use Sorscha, a Juggie, a Destroyer, 8 IFPs + Unit attachment and Widowmakers you won't be able to fit that much else into the army. Of what you can fit in, I would recommend a Manhunter and perhaps another Pikemen, to bring your force up to 498pts.
I got the card pack yesterday, and this is the basic list I have planned out (I also plan to grab some different warcasters, but this is the start):
Winter Guard Mortar Crew
Man-O-War Demo Corps + 2 extra
This leaves me about 10 points light, but it gives me the freedom to switch out different warcasters later.
I was also considering dropping the 2 extra demo corps guys for one of the following:
Field Gun Crew
Another Mortar Crew
What do you think?
I hate Kreoss.
I've only played two games so far, both against Menoth, and both against Kreoss.
Of course, as someone who plays Sorcha, I can hardly call other warcasters 'cheap', but damn it! KREOSS DOESN'T NEED TO SEE YOU IN ORDER TO USE MOST OF HIS POWERS AGAINST YOU!
Anyway, the game actually went fairly well, considering it was only my second, and my opponent's been playing regularly for months. Menoth has some really sick units though, especially in regards to their abilities. Of course that's the catch, their special abilities are fantastic, but they're otherwise inferior to Khador in close combat, Cygnar in shooting and Cryx in spells. Their special abilities are what make or break them.
This is the list I used:
Winter Guard Mortar Crew
4 Man-O-War Demo Corps
After playing one game, I'm considering changing the list to:
2 Winterguard Mortar Crews
3 Man-O-War Demo corps
Well, Sorscha loves bombards in all shapes and sizes so the Destroyer is a given choice with her. Of course, Lamnation sucks major ammounts of balls but that's something one will have to live with.
I'd give that second list a try though. Could work well, although it is a bit low on numbers.
Low numbers seem like a given with Khador, or at least in most of the Khador armies I've seen. Heck, the other Khador player at the league I'm in has far less than mine. His list is something along the lines of:
2 Destroyers (yes, two)
3 Man-O-War Demo Corps
That's it. So far, he's doing fairly well.
Anyway, I'm shying away from the destroyer simply because it seems really expensive for what it does. For 4 points less, the devastator seems a lot better at anti-infantry. It's armor is ridiculous, it has two open hands, and it inflicts an automatic POW 18 hit against nearby units. With Sorsha's 'Boundless Charge' that jack can be quite effective.
With the few points from that, a few left over from the original list, and the points from dropping a single demo-corp, I have enough points to field another mortar crew as well.
All things considered, I'm not that scared of enemy jacks. My main concern is dealing with large numbers of basic troops. After two games against Menoth, I've learned to fear the numerous, dangerous and nearly unstoppable zealots, which is why I want to add another mortar and the devastator.
Thanks for the advice!
Speaking of Sorscha, did they ever 'fix' her Whoosh (tm) maneuver?
For those who don't know the Whoosh is, the basic formula is as follows:
1. Move Sorscha toward the enemy caster.
2. Windrush for even more movement.
3. Pop her feat for the main purpose of freezing the enemy caster.
4. Beat down on enemy caster with either with boosted melee attacks or boosted bombard weapons (eg Destroyers).
When I could get regular games of WM this was frighteningly effective. Too bad I was devoted to my Denegrah list.
And over there we have the labyrinth guards.
One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask tricky questions.
Kind of. The maneuver is still there, but they redid her feat so it only works on enemies she can 'see'. If the enemy warcaster is out in the open, then yes, that works fine. If he's standing behind something, then no, she can only freeze the enemies directly in her line of sight.
Along with Kreoss' from Menoth (knock down every enemy within 14in, does not need line of sight), it's probably one of the two most powerful feats in the game. I honestly feel a little cheesy for using her, but I can't knock it, she won me a game yesterday that I otherwise probably would have lost. I only managed to freeze 4 enemy models, but two of them were his warbeasts, so everything went downhill for him after that.
And you can only Wind Rush once per activation now. She's nerfed, but still damn powerful.
Ironicly, my Khador armies usually end up with 20-ish models so low numbers is not something I usually play with.
Not only did I do well at the last 'Warmachine' night, but I've found a caster that I enjoy playing far more than Sorsha: The Old Witch of Khador.
My new list looks like this:
The Old Witch + Scrapjack
2 Mortar teams
Man-o-war Demo corps (3 models)
The force worked beautifully! The Old Witch comes with her own personal light warjack for free, which has an arc node (only one in the Khador army that I know of), the ability to pin down enemies, and can receive the spell 'slaughter' which shocked one opponent, who didn't expect my silly looking light warjack to race up and annihilate 6 models in one turn. She and the scrapjack also benefit from stealth whenever they receive cover.
She has nice spellcasting too, with 7 focus, several buff spells, a limited teleport spell, and the best of all, 'Murder of Crows'. It produces a 5in cloud effect anywhere in her control area that lasts a full round, and any unit inside (or who enters it) besides her or the scrapjack has to take a command check or flee, and if they start or end their turn inside, they take an unboostable POW 8 hit.
The main benefit isn't the effect in itself, but the fact it allows me to create cloud effects wherever I want, with no scatter. This proved invaluable for blocking line of sight, as enemy units can't see through clouds unless they're in them. I'd simply place the cloud, and then move the Juggernaut right behind it, and the Demo corps right behind him. The enemy can still walk up and attack/shoot while inside the cloud, but it prevents my opponent from easily shooting or charging. ^_^
2 Mortar teams lets me cover more of the board, the Widowmakers hold back and bide their time in terrain, and the Demo corps follow behind the Juggernaut. The Devastator, with its killer special attack that automatically hits units in base to base contact with an unboostable POW 18 hit, and any unit within 3in with an unboostable POW 9 hit, is incredibly effective...as long as he's not within 3in of my own troops. It does affect 'everything' after all, and he has to be within base to base contact with at least one enemy to use it.
What does everyone think? It's a little light on models, but it's proven very effective so far.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; June 30th, 2008 at 17:09. Reason: forgot one thing