Welcome to Librarium Online!
Howdy all, I'm new to the community.
Getting my bearings on where I should ask this question, but right here seems the best. Although not completely sound on weather I'm breaking any rules, simply point me in the right direction if I am in error here.
I have been a hobbiest for a while, going on 6 years. and I have had drastic changes in taste for my art ever since I bought my first Eldar model. Recently I have switched over to playing privateer press games. After collecting a decent amount of Khador, have decided to take the plunge into Hordes. I now have a few friends in the fold of gaming, aside from the fact that they all play warmachine, I'm hardly the gamer I was before I started college.
After trolling a few websites i came upon a list that has always tickled my fancy, Swarm armies always make me giddy, because outnumbering is hilarious when your opponent throws down his force and the model count is five to one in your favor. That said, the army I chose to play (quite the polar opposite of my Khador force) was the legion.
This list includes Vayl, fifteen shredders, two forsaken and two shepherds.
Being claimed to be around five hundred points, I want a force that is bigger than this. (point wise, in excess of 750, maybe even one thousand points)
Being an avid batch painter, i would LOVE painting this force, because I think the studio scheme for the legion is awesome, and tiny shark dragons are adorable.
My question is this.
How, if at all, could I take this force and make it into something playable, because already it seems like, from the little I know about hordes, (which is nothing) and army lists in general, that this list wouldn't work in the slightest, if not terrifying anyone who is afraid of sharks.
I have heard over and over, get the starter box, yes, its on hold at my local legends gaming store. However, lylyth is simply not a lock I'm interested in fielding, so i would mainly be getting it for the carnivean and shredders.
Mind that this force would be mainly for some light game play and sheer humor of shark dragons beating down robots.
Any idea on how to include Incubi into the list on the cheap would also be welcome.
Shredder spam is a little frightening but mainly if you're playing Tooth and Claw scenarios, in which case you just send them in waves and Rabid combined with Pack Mentality will tear down most enemy warbeasts. Sadly Incubi need at least one host and to take an infantry unit for the sole purpose of making them hosts is a waste of potential. That's part of why friends don't let friends take minimum-size units. Now in games that aren't Tooth and Claw you're going to need some kind of support to take down infantry so I would look into a few of the Legion's anti-infantry options. These include the Seraph, Nyss Raptors (the reindeer brigade), and...well...any infantry unit you can think of really. Striders are getting boosts right now to make them absolutely lethal against infantry and death to anything light that deploys on the edge of their zone. Plus taking a 10-man infantry unit (or two) lets you put in those Incubi you always wanted. I'd say a mixed Shredder and infantry force could work well, just needs a lot of practice.
That's about the answer i expected rabbit. Having no soldiers and mainly war beasts does sound a bit odd, and shredders are indeed for heavy duty rip and tear after i reviewed their stat card. What about harriers? Could i use these to combat infantry?
I'm teetering on the verge of my budget limit with the list below, which gives some variety to what i have previously posted, and gives me plenty to paint and play with, IMHO.
I already own two shredders, so they are in place and taken into account for the time being.
The starter box (lylyth, carni and four shredders) Vayl, two forsaken, Incubi, striders, two shephards, 4 harriers, 10 additional shredders, and the seraph.
ALL of these models come out to around 1k points, so it gives me plenty of wiggle room, and i honestly have my hands in the air over weather i should get swordmen over the 4 harriers, or just give up and drop the incubi for a future purchase.
Also, to compound problems, i need to grab these all in one lump sum. (insane i know)
Also, How does taking many war beasts dicernably change fury management over say, a big guy like a carnivean? Could i field both the carni and a bunch of shredders? or would they eat each because I have to deal with big and tall guarding my lock?
Thanks in advance.
As of yet I have no stat cards nor models so your ahead of me in that regard. But some insight I might have.Also, How does taking many war beasts dicernably change fury management over say, a big guy like a carnivean? Could i field both the carni and a bunch of shredders? or would they eat each because I have to deal with big and tall guarding my lock?
I would say that if your having your carni guard vayl then keep a forsaken near her too. You can use the forsaken to draw the fury off of the carni & that would allow you to draw more of the fury off of the shredders.
I think the weakest part of your idea is that you have so many shredders. And yeah they'll make a lot of fury. And as long as you can keep a Shepard within range of them you might be able to keep them from eating each other. But if your shepard dies. Half of your force might just eat itself.I haven't gotten Vayl so I can't say for certain. But from the sounds of her weapon you can cast a spell from a legion warbeast to target troops and keep her out of range of them. So using harriers to get her spells in closer is one possible option. At least thats how it sounds from the tactica I've read. Additionally. Harriers combined w/shredders can take out infantry, use the harrier to lighten the infantry then come in with the shredders to finish them off.That's about the answer i expected rabbit. Having no soldiers and mainly war beasts does sound a bit odd, and shredders are indeed for heavy duty rip and tear after i reviewed their stat card. What about harriers? Could i use these to combat infantry?
Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss
As for your question about fury management, the Forsaken is your primary Fury management tool aside from leaching. First of all, having many small beasts means you can spread your fury out more and you have more transfer options when your Warlock gets attacked (with Rhyas this is known as the Shredder popcorn maneuver, have a bunch of them with varying damage so that Rhyas can transfer enough to be lethal and reave a point of fury to do it again). It presents difficulties when using the Forsaken though because it can only draw fury from one target at a time, and the Blighted Shroud is a pretty nifty little ability. Shredders, especially when you have loads of them, are an expendable resource that you can use for maybe one attack run and then leave them to rot, letting your opponent spend resources to kill them and reaving their fury while setting up your second phase offensive.
I usually field the Carnivean with all four Shredders and I haven't had any real problems. Especially when you're using Vayl, you have tons of fury to play around with and can increase the mileage of your beasts by having them avoid counterstrikes with Cat and Mouse. Plus you want targets that you can bounce spells off of with the Oraculus in case she isn't close enough to do the job herself, and Shredders are ideal targets (as is the Carnivean really). The Carnivean also makes an excellent Dark Sentinel.
So, to sum up, your main disadvantage of a Shredder horde over less Shredders with a heavy is that you have to manage the little guys carefully. Don't worry about sacrificing them but make sure they don't eat themselves before their task is done. Afterwards it's all good.
Hi there boklulz, welcome to LO.
Shredder spam. There is a guy at my LGS that plays the list. It can be really good, or really comical.
Shredders are little glass cannons. They have enough damage output to be a threat but they die in droves, especially if they start to munch eachother.
I mainly popped into the thread to say one comment: In warmachine/hordes minimum units are not bad.
There are a few caveats. Leadership does matter, in games where your troops are not fearless, have a low Cmd, and your caster has low cmd, minimum unit size is a BAD idea. however, if you have a very reliable commander, or caster, minimun size is very functional.
This changes when you start getting to all fearless armies. For example, Cryx barring any field allowence restrictions on units, SHOULD be taking lots of small units. Leadership is never an issue, more units = more options and activations.
I think what night bunny was getting at for the incubi: minimum size unit for hosts is bad becasue it sets you up to get taken 2-for-1. If I know you are bringing incubi, and I see exactly 1 unit of infantry, I'm gonna do everything I can to kill it fast and at range. Have a bunch of "extras" in the unit and the task gets more difficult for me, giving you a better chance to deliver your payload.
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WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Thanks for the advice all, methinks the listed above models will be bought anyway, and theme and comic relief is indeed why I'm even considering this list.
As it is, its true that incubi are a trap to be used with infantry, and although they all look pretty slick, I will be certain to omit them in my lists until I obtain a substantial amount of infantry.
As is the list looks like it should be mutable enough for my tastes in gaming, and plenty of stuff to paint! so I'll let you all know how it works out.
your going to have problems against jack heavy any other armies that can take care of shredders be careful on how you set up and play but my advance, would be ninja kill the enemy caster/lock soon.
Question: Is using a Plasma rifle to kill a fly overkill?
Answer: Nevah, the fly was in the way when i was melting some Death Guard!