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hi just getting started here i has the battle box and am thinking of expanding in this direction
The Withershadow Combine
i like the chicken jacks look but have no idea as to effectiveness so any pointers would be nice and hint as to a good caster as i'm thinking either asphyxious or venethrax so any help would be nice
There isn't a warcaster in the game that can handle that many jacks without focus starving him/herself or running several jacks dry. You're going to want more units and solos in there.
Don't know too much about Cryx, but you're definitely overloading there.
On the bone-chickens, they are fairly weak in combat and die easily, though they are hard to hit. You don't put them in an army to beat stuff up, though, they are just about the fastest and cheapest arcnodes any army can get. As long as the arcnode is still running and movement hasn't been crippled they're doing their job. The defiler is nice to have around just for the spray.
Last edited by Hockeyman506; February 27th, 2011 at 22:32.
I'm supposedly a Cryx player (don't get to play that often though!) but from my limited experiences...
I've not used a lot of bonejacks - I think the only time I did I really wasn't impressed by them, but that's probably more because I was making a bit of a hash of things and not using them properly. You do seem to have a lot in your list, though whether that's a good or bad thing I don't really know.
I have used Venethrax - from what I saw of him he's quite decent. He can hit really hard in melee and is a pretty reasonable caster given the amount of focus he can generate. Asphyxious is no slouch, though - get him in melee and with sustained assault he can really do some damage.
I notice you have the Slayer in your list and, while there's nothing wrong with it, I'm a massive fan of the Seether. Maybe it's just personal preference but the 'aggressive' rule it has (and the double handed throws!) can come in very handy. If you have the points to fit a Seether in, I'd at least give it a try, and see if it works for you.
Finally, having a skarlock thrall is also often handy, especially if you intend throwing a lot of spells around.
Most of the other stuff I'm not all that familiar with, so I can't really voice any opinions on them, unfortunately. I think I have used the Cankerwurm but only once, and while I have vague memories of it being quite useful I can't be much more specific then that!
Not that there is anything wrong with the deathrippers, but you already get 2 of them in the battlebox and bonechickens shine as arc nodes, meaning that if you are in combat, you can't arc spells through them and they aren't really doing with them what they were majoritively fielded for in the first place. With this in mind, I would probably reccommend buying either some nightwretches (as they are the same points cost as deathrippers) or maybe some more defilers if you think you can bear to spend more points on your chickens.
If you are intending on getting cankerworm, then I would definitely recommend getting Asphyxious as your second caster. His utility is much different from how Deneghra is intended on being played and Cankerworm's affinity with Asphyxious really makes him shine as a jack that has Spd 6, Pathfinder, is immune to free strikes and has an armour piercing attack can really lay the smakdown on almost anything in an army if you can get him to hug area terrain for most of a game. He goes in, bites some stuff and backs out without getting hit in return, as well as having MAT7, making him pretty likely to hit anything with def of 13 or less without boosting his attack roll.
I would probably steer clear of the helldiver as I have heard that he isn't really the best to be trying to use as a bonejack, and with his statline, I would tend to agree. He is slower than regular chickens, has no arc-node, has the same amount of attacks as a regular bonechicken (less if you are comparing him to a ranged chicken) and is easier to hit (1 point less DEF than other chickens except cankerworm). Considering that to get him to perform is going to require him sapping focus from your warcaster, I would rather lean towards other bonechickens or helljacks.
The ripjaw is worth a look, but would either be more useful as a utility jack to vice lock a warjack to reduce its DEF and then move a helljack in for the kill. It would take some practice and would rely on your opponent fielding a jack centered list, but ripjaw would have his purposes.
What Deadstar and Hockeyman says is correct with all the jacks. Once you go over a jack count of 4, then most casters have trouble allocating enough focus to position all their jacks as well as make good utility of their spell lists. This is where you really need to start looking towards ways of increasing focus efficiency in your army. You are on the right track with the Withershad combine, as they can abolish enemy upkeep spells while automatically upkeeping one of your spells each turn if there is 1 to upkeep. A skarlock is almost a necessity once you start to go into 20+ point games as the extra spell is golden. From there, it is all about personal flavour. Some jacks produce their own focus (seether and deathjack), others don't require focus to charge (seether) and others can gain their own focus like a warcaster with cull soul by killing living enemy models and reaping their souls (Harrower). Then there are solos like the War Witch Sirens that can use their action to allocate focus to warjacks, making them more potent when they are activated.
The main thing to consider is that most cryx casters really shine more as spellcasters than as melee beasts like warjacks or other faction's warcasters, meaning that the less focus they have to expend on keeping their jacks where they need to be, the more focus they can spend causing a hard time for the other team's army. I haven't played a lot of WM games myself, but I do like theorycrafting a lot on lists and the other bonus that crys has is that most of their troops choices are undead, meaning they don't give 2 hoots about losing models in their unit and they don't flee like other armies as why do you need to fear death if you are already dead, .
wow thanks for the responses they have help a lot i'll wait till i get the faction book to decide the best jacks for me BUT i will take all this advice on broad
Hey everyone. I've finally decided to make the switch to Warmachine and I have chosen Cryx. I saw this thread so I thought I'd post here.
My battle box is coming in the mail in a few days and I think before it gets here I'm going to go get a model or two to add to it. I've discovered a hobby store some forty minutes away that sells Warmachine.
I'm thinking about the Withershadow Combine and use them as kind of a bodyguard for my warcaster to protect from jacks. Other units I'm looking at are Bile Thralls and Satyxis Raiders(for either the exploding Thralls or the speed of the Raiders). Looking at Skarlock and Pistol Wraith, possibly even Necrotech & Scrap Thralls for my first solo. If I got another jack I think I want to get the Cankerworm, its just pretty unique(or maybe a few more bonejacks like the Nightwretchs). Not shooting for any particular set amount of points right now. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.
Hey Orc "Huge" Boss!
While it might have been better for you to start your own thread, I suppose we can answer your questions here.
If you're getting the battlebox, I believe you'll end up with Deneghra as your Warcaster. I'd highly recommend a Skarlock as a high priority for her - I haven't used her a lot, but she is most definitely a Warcaster who would benefit from a free spell per turn! She's not all that resilient, either - she seems to work better kept behind your lines while using arc-nodes to direct her spells.
About the only other things in your list I've actually used myself are the Satyxis. You're right, they are fast, but try not to rush ahead with them. While their feedback rule makes them good for targeting warjacks (for a few points of damage on the opponent's warcaster) I don't think I've ever actually killed a 'jack with them... They are good for softening them up, though, and pretty decent at taking out infantry.
I did use the Cankerworm once, also, but don't really have that much of an impression of its usefulness. I remember it being pretty fast, too, and it ended up way out on its own but managed to come back in to play later in the game.
So that's about all I have in the way of advice for the moment. In terms of general Warmachine tips, movement seems to be very important, and for Cryx (who can't soak up a lot of damage) getting the charge is also quite important. Not essential, of course, but paying close attention to your movement and being able to charge or counter-charge well will go a long way towards having a good game.
Hope it all helps!
One of the best tips I can give you about playing warmachine from my limited experience at the moment is be agressive. Treat every model in the army as expendable if it attributes towards the end result.
It is difficult to say what are the best things to get unless you know what sort of function you want them to perform. If you are looking for anti-infantry, then I would probably say go with either of the saytaxis units (blood witches or raiders), blackbanes ghost raiders or either of the bane units + Bane Lord Tartarus. I haven't used the saytaxis units much yet, but have used the raiders once already and can vouch for the fact that they are damn easy to maneuver, especially if you have the UA and the raider captain solo. Units that run 18" without taking negs for difficult terrain are just gold. You can put them on almost any area of the table and expect them to perform as long as they can hit somthing they are targeting.
The unit that I have had most success with at the moment are the bane thralls as they are fantastic for wiping jacks out and have quite a good potential to take out units if you let B.L.Tartarus tag along and curse whatever you are intending to charge. 4 points is pretty steep for a Solo that isn't a dragoon, but he has definitely been the model of the match for me in the last 2 games that I have played in, as the utility of him is just ridiculous. Stealth makes him almost immune to damage against any ranged attack besides an AOE from a Jack, since they can only make a direct hit against tartarus from less than 5" away and 17 arm makes him pretty resilient to blast dmg from AOE's unless they have the ability to boost the dmg.
I haven't had the opportunity to field bane knights yet as I don't have the unit and haven't played a huge amount of games yet, but the mobility of the knights makes them more proficient killing machines because their threat range is larger than the bane thralls, they have ghostly (meaning they don't take negatives to movement from difficult terrain) and with vengeance and reach, if they have been shot at by the opponent and had at least 1 model removed from the unit the previous turn, their effective threat range on a unit affected by tartarus' curse is 15", which makes them a very credible threat indeed.
I have only used biles twice, but they performed quite well on both occasions. They are a tricky unit to play as they fall like they are made from paper mache if you put them out in the open. The best advice I can give you if you intend on fielding bile thralls is to make sure you have some threatening targets further up the field than the biles, as if your opponent sees the biles as the most immediate threat as opposed to another unit or jack, they will take them out quick smart and in a hurry. Biles are murder to single wound infantry if they get in range to make a purge attack as anything that is hit and doesn't get killed by the purge attack will have a 66% chance of dying in the following control phase of your opponent. Biles are great to use in armies where they can benefit from some shielding potential. Occultation from either the witch coven or eGoreshade makes them stealth, cloud effects from either eGaspy (Asphyxious) or the coven also makes them more resilient. I probably wouldn't worry about taking biles in small point games unless you are exploiting knowledge that your opponent is quite melee heavy and then you can just do so much damage with them that it isn't even funny.
Denny is a bit of an acquired taste as she is very fragile when she does get hit. She relies on her stealth and high DEF to keep her safe, but if you let a jack or model that has the ability to boost attack rolls or has a MAT of 8 or higher to get anywhere near her, you can pretty much kiss your ass goodbye. Denny is one of the more difficult casters to master as her feat is just plain nasty, but you have to get her up into the thick of things to make full use of it. If you are intending on getting the withershad combine, I would definitely reccommend getting a plastic helljack kit and making yourself a Reaper helljack. I magnetised mine so it has the option of being 1 of 3 separate jacks, but the reaper or slayer are the best jacks to use out of the 3 available to make in the kit. Best recommendations for units with denny would be either saytaxis raiders or some form of bane unit in conjunction with BL Tartarus if you are that way inclined. If you are leaning towards the raiders, I would seriously suggest getting the UA for them and possibly the solo if you wanna go that far. The UA should be an auto include, particularly if you are taking a full 10 model unit, but the solo is a matter of personal taste.
A skarlock should also be one of the first solos you look for in a denny army because she is a very focus hungry caster and sometimes requires ghost walk to be cast on a unit or jack before her activation to make full benefit of them. Running bonechickens up through terrain with ghost walk only to have denny venom units to death will be somthing that your opponent will get sick of very quickly if you do it right.
Hope this give a little insight. Let me know if you want some more advice.
Oh, something else that just occurred to me...
I know it wasn't on your list, but I've heard it said that the Warwitch Siren (I think that is what the model is called) is like a mini Deneghra. I'm not sure if that means they'd work well in a list together or not, but it could be something interesting to try.
I can second the recommendation of using some form of Bane unit. I've used Bane Thralls a lot, they're very versatile, especially if you can buff them or debuff whatever they're targeting.
The warwitch sirens are quite good if you are running a few more bonechickens than the standard 2-3. Warwitch sirens have basically the same stats as denny with 1 less def and armour, 1 less P+S on her wep (which shouldn't really be getting used on anything more nimble than a heavy jack) and 1 more CMD, which doesn't really mean much for a solo that doesn't have the "Commander" rule anyways. The 2 reasons you field WW sirens is to allocate single points of focus to warjacks (as well as disabling disruption on them) and for the venom spray attack. Venom wreaks havoc on single wound models with DEF 13 or less as it pretty much negates cover bonuses and has a deacent chance of taking out multiple models given the speed of the witches and the corrosion continuous effect on the spell itself. Like denny, they take a bit of practice to use at their optimal efficiency since if they get caught in the open, regardless of the fact that they have stealth, they are gonna get smooshed. That being said, they are good to use for allocating free focus to arc nodes in order to charge their asses up the field.
Use a skarlock to cast ghost walk on an arc node, a WW siren to allocate a single focus to the chicken and then burn 14" up the field with that puppy into a prime position for denny to throw out 2 or 3 venoms on some juicy targets through that arc node.