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Questions about starting Warmachine (Cygnar)

3K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  IronWeevil 
#1 ·
I was parsing through the Cygnar warcasters and stumbled across Captain Allister Caine. Looking at the battlebox, nothing in it seems to synergize with him. Given that, I poked around on Battle College. Would something like this be a viable start?

Captain Allister Caine
Hunter
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (6)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (6)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (3)
Rangers (6)
Rangers (6)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
Squire
Journeyman Warcaster
 
#2 ·
Nothing synergizes with Caine because he likes to hoard his focus and teleport around. He needs a team that can operate without support. This is eCaine, right? So the ATGM are good, as are Eiryss and Journeyman. For the rest, you need to mix things up a bit; relying on direct-fire shooting is harsh. I tried that starting out and a single unit with stealth can ruin your list. Alternative suggestions:

Cyclone instead of Hunter, for board control.

Heavy Trencher theme, including the Grenadier. Trencher units can bring some AoE shooting, very nice to have in Warmachine because it bypasses high DEF.

Or a CC unit, maybe Stormguard? The ATGM can pull double duty thanks to eCaine but a second option could be nice.

Beyond that, I don't know the newer units.
 
#4 ·
I'd go with Aiyana&Holt or eCain. A&H are expensive, and basically do the same thing that Cain is trying to do (snipe solos/casters). Having them both in the army is investing too much in redundantly pursuing a very narrow goal.
I'd rather see you field the Grenadier and Trenchers, which gives Cain a nice base to work from. He's really flyboy, and he's going to steal the show all by himself.

My Cygnar force uses Stormblades quite heavily (like the models, like the abilities) and Cain does alright with them. He has abilities that can buff them nicely, but they're not dependent on loads of assistance or babysitting to get the job done. You'll need some Anti-Jack cover though: Hunters and Defenders both standout as being capable snipers (with boosts) and being 'Jack-centric in their targeting. It would be an expensive and small army though.
 
#6 · (Edited)
How would something like this work:

Captain Allister Caine
Grenadier
Minuteman
Squire
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (6)
Trencher Commandos (Leader and 5)
Trencher Commandos Scattergunner
Rangers (6)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer
Journeyman Warcaster
Trencher Master Gunner
Eiryss2
 
#7 ·
After some research, I think that my starting stock is going to be:

eCane
- Hunter
- Squire
Reinholdt
Gun Mages
Gun Mages
- Officer
- Cyclone
Aiyanna & Holt
eAlexia

I'll play these a bit and decide how to expand, based on outcomes.
 
#9 ·
It's 35 points. It's designed to be shooty with some control elements. I went with the gun mages since eCaine lets them shoot in melee. The solos are there to debuff high armor targets to make them vulnerable to the rest of the list. We'll see how the plan survives contact with a live opponent :), once they are built and painted.
 
#11 ·
Nice list, but beware of enemy attacks with AoE (even iv they miss due to your usually high defense stats it will land somewhere and many of your units are squishy enough to fear even splash damage) and enemies with high armor (if you can pull of all combos it will be nice, but with base strength of 14 or often lower those buffs are also sorely needed)
 
#12 ·
Those are the two things that I was worried about, although I didn't consider AoEs quite so much, so a good point there. The list is small - it feels like a Retribution army, but with different models. Anything that does hit you, either by getting a lucky hit or bypassing your stat entirely like an AoE, is going to hurt you a lot.
I was already concerned about the high armor. The key to winning with this army is going to be getting that assassination quickly. You don't have the bodies or the ability to get into a protracted fight. Don't allow yourself to get bogged down in setting up combos to kill off high-armor stuff like heavy infantry or 'Jacks. You need to make a path, get Cane to the enemy caster, and kill him.
My guess is that your toughest rival will be well played Karchev (Khador) lists. The guy's a literal tank, and rather than using those anti-armor combos to snip out 'Jacks and other choice tertiary targets, you're going to be relying on those combos to do the one job that your list is based on; sniping Karchev. Add this to the fact that he's bringing tons of Khador 'Jacks and can actually get them into the fight in hurry (really fast if he flings them) and have them do monster damage with his feat... your list won't like Karchev at all. Plus Khador has plenty of AoE bombardments, from cheap WG Mortars, to Bombardiers (f'ing bombardiers man! ****)
 
#13 ·
Oh, and another point to consider: Focus economy. Admittedly with the Cyclone being Jack-Marshaled by the GUn Mage Officer there is one Focus sink gone, but still eCaine has to wrestle between spell casting and upkeep and empowering his Light Jack. Assuming he has cast them in turn 1 or 2 (when there was enough time and safety for it and the Hunter needed only 1 Focus for running) then he has up to three upkeep spells, which would siphon off half of his Focus, so choose wisely what to cast and what to upkeep and what to do with his Warjack (Well, if the Hunter shoots You basically want to spend Focus for an extra damage die, too, as even with armor piercing the damage a POW6 cannon inflicts is rather unimpressive)

Two other not too specific things to look out for:

Mage Hunter and/or Mage Killer ability: Both your Mercenaries (and of course the Warcaster) need to be wary of enemies with one of those (ore even both) abilities.

Stealth: only the Gun Mage Officer and his Unit (not the Jack he marshals) can ignore stealth as tactic, your Warcaster has an upkeep spell (limited to himself) for that purpose. All others will automatically miss any stealthy opponent that's more than 5" away, and those that are closer you hopefully finish then completely otherwise they probably munch you up in close combat next turn.

Anything more I guess would get too specific and the opponents you gonna face might even put together completely different lists which would make further tips pointless (unless you gonna face Circle Orboros in that case I could give more specific warnings)
 
#14 ·
Thanks for all of the feedback folks. The list is on the squishy side, somewhat by design. My next acquisitions are aimed at giving it a little more heft. The following units are on my wishlist for expansion potential. Feel free to comment or offer alternate suggestions.

Blocking units/ Meatshields:

Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps

Silver Line Stormguard

Maxwell Finn and Trencher Commandos

Support and focus help:

Arlan Strangewayes

Journeyman Warcaster
 
#15 ·
Arlan/Journeyman might help you out with where the list is at right now - let eCane keep some Focus for himself. However, I would avoid taking more small/squishy stuff, like Arlan, or the Guard.
You don't really have much that makes taking SilverLines worth it over normal Stormguard. In fact, I'd say that the Storm Guard's stock-standard shooting does a better job maintaining synergy.

Honestly, I would go for straight Trenchers, or some Sword Knights. You want a "blob" that can give your army something to work around, sort of a hammer-and-anvil. You play Warhammer, you're used to the idea of stopping an opponent that you don't want to fight - and that's what these guys are for. The other stuff that you listed as "blockers" and "meatshields" are specialists. Sword Knights are your go to blockers. Trenchers are a touch pricey, but provide more support and can use their ranged weapons to help you out when you're defending, so I'd say it's a toss up really.
Remember - specialize in a few main "win conditions", and then go bargain-bin cheap on your other goals. You want a melee unit in a sniper army? Don't grab some "amazing on paper" melee regiment - they're going to be too expensive and overqualified for what you need, and they're going to eat up Focus on the things that *make* them that good (especially and 'decent' Cygnar melee units). Focus you won't have, because you should be using it to win the game.

That's one thing that I've learned about Warmahordes - moreso than 40k or Fantasy where you can win through attrition and "when in doubt, pound it out" style playing, Warmahordes is a lot tighter and you have to always be thinking about the win. Like basketball - passing and dribbling and moving the ball around is all great, but just put the ball in the hoop.

Also, going over 35pts is fairly rare. 50pts is still considered a large game in my area. It's more unpopular in my group now, because of the Colossal stuff.
 
#16 ·
CaptainSarathai is head-on correct with his comments.

Especially the Journeyman Warcaster and his Arcane Shield spell will be very nifty buffing your Warcaster or either Warjack, helping their survivability. Just remember it's an upkeep, so only one of them can benefit.
 
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