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Hey, everybody. As a member of the Order of the Shadowy Flame, I'm probably the best example of the "curse of the Shadowy Flame" ... this curse being unable to decide on an army ..
Well, I'm taking that one step further. Warmachine has caught my eye, so I came here to ask everyone for help.
My 40k army, if I were to start it, would be very difficult to build, and just to see if I CAN have this army, I'd have to spend well around $60 US (box of Cadians, green stuff, sculpting tools, file..) ... now, from what I hear, that $60 can give me a halfway decent force when it comes to Warmachine, and after viewing the models I don't know if I want to go ahead with 40k right now, as I've been considering taking a break anyways. Here's what I'm looking for in a game/army:
1) Cost: I don't want to have to sell my soul to play, as it is with GW games! From what I hear, Warmachine is extremely cost effective.
2) Customisation: GW has a decent amount of this in their games. How customisable are the armies in Warmachine? I don't want to collect one of the five? armies just to have somebody else have an almost exactly the same army as me. Can I collect the same army as someone and have a different, yet still effective, army structure?
3) Strategy: I want a fun, but very strategic, game. I don't want it to the point where I don't have any fun playing it, as sometimes is the case when it comes to a game like chess (which I have seen several people compare chess to Warmachine) ... I want it to be enjoyable but with many tactics that can be used, many different tactics for the same army, so you don't have to rely on one strategy to win the game.
Finally, what army/faction would you recommend I play? I like the All-Mercenary idea, but I also like the Protectorate of Menoth ... however, I'd probably go with the Mercenaries.
What books should I get to have all of the information about the game that would help me play? A list would help nicely. ^_^
Thanks very much!
Hey there. well while i may not be the best person here to give you advice as i just started myself i can say after playing GW games for about 4 or 5 years it is much much cheaper. all you need is the prime rulebook, about 20 bucks, and then get some minis. i play 40k and WHFB. i spent right around 700 dollars per army in each. i remember i bought a regiment of warriors 3 years ago at 25 bucks. they now cost 40. sigh. i haven't quite made it through the prime book yet but i can say it's very straightforward and a lot easier than 40k to learn. ok that's about the extent of my knowledge. enjoy!
Nemesis, there doesn't seem to be much converting going on in Warmachine. You don't get loads of extra bits like you do with GW stuff. However, you can structure your army in a number of different ways (lots of 'Jacks, lots of infantry, etc.), and pure Mercs seems like the least-played force.
As for how it's played, I don't know much yet. Smaller-scale than 40k, and not so squad-based. Somebody else will fill you in.
Sure, you can convert. However the rules are quite different in Warmachine than Warhammer, and your conversions need to be consistent with the rules.
For example, you just can't lay a giant flail on a Khador Juggernaut, becuase it uses an ICE AXE. A giant flail has totally different rules, damage, and abilities. Likewise, you can't put a giant Executioner axe on a Cygnar Ironclad, since their weapon is a Quake Hammer.
However, extra spikes here and there wouldn't hurt. If you don't mind cutting pewter, that is.
Gamewise, it is amazing to say the least. It is on a much smaller level than Warhammer, and very character-centric. Your Warcaster can cast spells, and so on, and are very difficult to kill.
Like Zanzibar said, you can go heavy infantry or heavy Jacks. How you play the game is up to you. Each faction can have so many freaking combinations that the possibilities are virtually endless.
It is a very fun game and I suggest you look into it.
"And whoever wants to be a creator in good and evil, must first be an annihilator and break values. Thus the highest evil belongs to the greatest goodness: but this is--being creative."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~
The only customization in Warmachine is in your army list content. I know that sounds harsh, and I have played 40k for several years now and collect Imperial Guard, one of the most custimizable armies in the GW universe.
I like Warmachine for its high quality models and its ease of play.
However, as you begin to grasp the strategy a little more, you realize that the straightforward rules and seeming simplicity of the game can lead to very complex tactics and combinations. I would almost liken it to Magic: The Gathering (build a deck around a certain strategy or combos), or on some levels, Chess. Chess is a very basic game with only 6 different pieces that each have a unique movement pattern, but the strategy is difficult and always changing.
For about $55 (plus paint, brushes and glue) you can have a soild Warmachine starting set up, including the "PRIME" rulebook ($20 rulebook, $35 faction boxed set). I highly recommend the starter boxed sets for the different factions, once put together and painted they give you about a 350 - 400 point force, which I find to be a good size for most games. Plus, all the models in the starter boxed sets will have their rules in the PRIME book so you wont need to purchase the expansion stuff until you get more into the game.
Warmachine is a very up and coming game with a promising future and is published by what seems to be a very fanbase attentive company. What it lacks in model range size and army fine tuning and customization it more than makes up for with fun, fast paced games and strategy.
I am the Aquila-Guerilla!
Reposing warmachine mini's is pretty common. So is adding a few extra doodads. For example, I've scupted a cowboy hat onto one of my pistol wraiths. As long as the weapon configuration matches it's listed card/book entry it should be fine.
Just an example of what I've done with Goreshade and his Deathwalker.
Last edited by CBrate; October 6th, 2005 at 12:37.
And over there we have the labyrinth guards.
One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask tricky questions.
The cost of warmachine miniatures, while better than warhammers, is still hardly cheap. While you can get a small starting force for 40 bucks keep in mind that it is only 3-5 models and 300 points. If you only played small scale warhammer games (skirmish, warband, kill team etc.) you could probably play it for a similar cost...but who plays warhammer for small scale battles.
While warhammer is all about hordes of nameless troops dying in droves, warmachine is about smaller more characterful battles. Both are great games, but they have quite different feels. I'd recommend starting out with warmachine because it's easier. Simpler rules, smaller starting investment (although DON'T think warmachine is cheap, I've spent over 200 dollars on warmachine and the amount of models would only fill out a unit or two in warhammer), and no conversion is needed. One beef with warhammer is they release rules that they don't have models for forcing a lot of conversions (especially in armies such as space orks).
Overall warmachine is a great game, I really get attatched to the characters. Few things are as frustrating as seeing your favorite warjack getting raped by some warcaster's vicious spells and feats. In warhammer they are MOSTLY just nameless troops waiting to die at the beck and call of a couple characters. Plus in warmachine the one on one battles are pretty spiffy since warjacks have a miriad of special attacks they can make, from putting enemies in headlocks to hurling them into someone else.
Start with warmachine, get a feel for it before you jump off the deep end and blow your children's college fund on warhammer armies containing hundreds of models.
oh and the cards included in warmachine are an absolutely brilliant idea and make the game so much easier.
As for which faction to pick, mercs are cool but a little difficult. I don't know a lot about them, but I know that magnus at least HAS to be working for another faction in multi warcaster armies. So having more than a small scale merc army might be difficult, I honestly don't know much about it though. You'll NEED to get the escalation book since there are only 3 merc units in Prime.
the protectorate are intolerant religious psychopaths...what's not to like about that? :w00t: Not to mention that some of their newest models are some of the hottest in the game.
Hope you like the game.
I ran out of money, but needed more toys. I ran out of credit, so now GW owns my soul. LONG LIVE THE OBSESSIVE SPENDER.
A few guys at my club are starting to play it, and I think I'm going to as well. I want to play a pure mercs force, but what army box set things are there for mercs? I saw some things on the net like Boomhowler and Company, Croes Cut-throats, Magnus the betrayer and Someone Grundback or something. Are any/all of these playable armies straight out of the box?Originally Posted by Zanzibar
If not, what are the mercs box sets? Thanks.
The Mercs only have two starter box sets that I know of, and that is Gorten Grundback and Magnus the Traitor. I just ordered Gorten's boxed set for myself and look forward to basing my Merc army around him and his cool unique 'Jacks.
The Mercs only have a few warcasters at this point in time:
-Grundback (has some unique 'jacks that will only work for him)
-Magnus the Traitor (has some unique 'jacks that will only work for him)
-Ashlynn D'Elyse (No Quarter Mag, Issue #1 p.31)
-Alexia Ciannor (No Quarter Mag, Issue #2 p.21)
No Quarter Magazine is a must have to check out most of the Merc units which arent featured in the rulebooks, and there are quite a few now. There is also Sam MacHorne who is the Devil Dog leader and is a 'Jack Marshal, but not a warcaster.
So far with every issue of No Quarter, the Mercs are becomming a more versitile and capable force. Oh, and you mentioned Crow's Cut-throats and Boomhowler & Co. which are Merc units but do not contain any Warcasters or 'Jack Marshals.
I am the Aquila-Guerilla!
Warmachine is still way cheaper than GW. The starter sets are $40 bucks, and yeah, they only come with 3-4 minis, but two or three of the models are all-metal dreadnought-equivalents. And 300 points in Warmachine do not translate into 300 points in Warhammer. I can't think of a time I'd want to play Warmachine over 1000 points, while I can't really think of playing 40K at less than 1,000.
The books you need for *all* Warmachine info are Warmachine Prime, Escalation, and Apotheosis. However, it is possible to play very good games with just Prime. (I actually prefer this, because the subsequent books have, well, escalated the game and introduced a couple potentially borken elements.)
I agree with Squiggyfist, that it is possible to spend some money in WM. I've probably spent around $200 myself, but for that I've got just about every Khador unit available, plus a small Cygnar force and a few mercs. But I feel like I've gotten more for that $200 than I would have got from GW. The number of models is small, but they're metal, and seven of them are heavy jacks. You can't get GW models in plastic for that price, and I can't think of any real table-legal GW army you could buy for $40.