Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I've played warhammer for a bit...but quite frankly I get tired of a ton of rank and file troops that all look relatively the same with nothing special...and I get tired of paying 70+ for them. Long story short, I like the way the models of Warmachine look and the price is right....Thus I have a new painting project.
I like to paint more than play most days..unfortunately I have never actually seen the models/warjacks/etc...as such, I just have a few questions
1) Scale. I was never very good with scale...Is a Warjack the size of a space marine or something all together larger?
2) I'd be getting the newby box and the rules book. At the moment I'm leaning towards either Cyrx or Khador due to the fact I just like the looks...Wise investment?
3) Since I don't know much, can anyone explain the units in 40k terms? The translation would be much appreciated.
Thanks for anything you can offer. I'd much rather have a few units with Character than a 1000000 point army of the same god damn space marine.
Warhammer 40K is built to 28mm scale. Warmachine is built to 30mm scale. This means that Warmachine infantry is slightly larger than WH40K infantry. Warjacks are significantly larger than 40K things. Heavy warjacks are about 60-65mm (~2.5 inches) tall. Light warjacks are smaller, but still bigger than the infantry is. There're three base sizes in Warmachine: small (30mm diameter), medium (40mm), and large (50mm). Infantry is usually small-based, light warjacks are medium, and heavy jacks are large.1) Scale. I was never very good with scale...Is a Warjack the size of a space marine or something all together larger?If you're asking if those factions are wise investments, well, sure. There're only four factions (plus Mercs), and they're all competative.2) I'd be getting the newby box and the rules book. At the moment I'm leaning towards either Cyrx or Khador due to the fact I just like the looks...Wise investment?
If you meant the battlebox sets, those are also fairly good buys. The Khadorian one is one of the best ones around because of the warjacks included in it (I still use at least one of the two of them in most of my games). Privateer Press is great about keeping old stuff balanced with new stuff, so these being old boxes won't decrease their competativeness
The Khador box is focused on heavy hitters, with two Heavy warjacks (no other box has two heavies, and hell, no other faction uses so many heavies as Khador!). The warcaster inside, Sorscha, is very good. There's a tactic out there using her that's a near-instant win, but its frowned on by most players because it takes the fun out of the game. Even without that tactic, she's very very good.
The Cryx box is more focused on debuffs, numbers, and speed. The Heavy warjack included is probably going to be your least favorite model from the box (Cryx players rarely use Heavies, they just aren't as good for the cost). The Light warjacks (the little dog-lookin' things) are great, and you'll use them in any list you make. And the warcaster, like with Khador, is still valid for tourney play!
Buying a battlebox, for any faction, is a great way to start the game! Hell, many people still play "box games" where you pit 350pts against your opponet (each battlebox being balanced against each other box, and somewhere between 300 & 350pts). If you're starting up with a friend, have them buy a box as well and you two'll be able to play balanced games against each other with just those models.Hmm. Well, in 40K you have the Force Organization Chart, right? HQ, Elite, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. In Warmachine, there's no organization grid like that, but there are four "types" of units.3) Since I don't know much, can anyone explain the units in 40k terms? The translation would be much appreciated.
Warcasters form your "HQ" section - you *must* have a Warcaster lead your army. You may take up to one Warcaster per 500pts (so 2 in 1000, etc). They serve as both your General and your Wizard, leading your army to war. They have a replentishing resource called Focus which allows them to cast spells and "boost" their warjacks (ie, make warjacks do crazy special attacks). In small games (~350), killing your enemy's Warcaster ends the game.
Infantry form your "Troops" section. These are basically infantry (or cavalry, with the latest expansion) squads. Unlike in 40K, there's no minimum or maximum number of units here. Usually you'll have 1-2 units in a 500pt list, and none in a 350pt list (since battleboxes are nearly 350pts by themselves). While it *is* possible to build a list for 500pt+ games without any infantry, you generally won't do as well that way.
Solos don't really correspond to any 40K category. These are single models that cannot join any squads and always work alone. Khador has a Manhunter, for example, who works like a melee assassin. Cryx has a Skarlock, who mimics magic cast by your Warcaster. Lots and lots of variety. Generally they're very inexpensive (in points), and many people take quite a few of them.
Warjacks are the cream of the crop, and the thing that draws most everyone into Warmachine. They're giant steampowered machines (think 40K Dreadnoughts, but without the man inside). There are two varieties: heavy and light. Heavies cost a lot more, move slower, have better weapons and armor, and are on large bases (Lights are on medium bases). Khador doesn't have any Lights at all. The other factions have a mix of Heavies and Lights. Warjacks belong to your Warcaster's "Battlegroup" (literally, this is just your Warcaster and warjacks). This isn't too important in small games, but when you have multiple Warcasters per player, you also have multiple Battlegroups (and a Warcaster can only affect a warjack in his or her own Battlegroup). The reason that killing a Warcaster ends the game is because warjacks literally shut down if the Warcaster leading their Battlegroup is killed!
A regular list for 350pts is a Warcaster plus warjacks. For Khador, that is 2-3 Heavies (they have no Lights). For Cygnar and the Protectorate, this is usually 1-2 Heavies and 2-3 Lights. For Cryx, you'll rarely see lists with more than 1 Heavy (and frequently none!), and all the rest will be lights (3+).
In 500pt games, you can keep about the same warjacks, and of course your Warcaster, and you can begin to add in infantry and solos. My recent 500pt list, for example, has a Warcaster, two Heavy warjacks (I play Khador), two units of infantry (one ranged, one melee), and a single Solo. Thats 1 Warcaster model, 2 Warjacks models, 8 Infantry models, and 1 Solo model. There are variations up to all infantry or down to all warjacks, but mixed forces is usually the way to go.
There are no minimum or maximum number of units needed. If you wanted, you could make an army with no Infantry, or no Warjacks, or whatever weird combination you want. The *only* thing you're required to have is a single Warcaster per 500pts.
Also, every unit/model has a "Field Allowance". This defines how many of a single type of unit/model you can field. So while there's no limit to how much infantry you can field, a specific infantry unit (like Khadorian Man-O-Wars) might be limited to only 2 units of that type per game. Warcasters are all Field Allowance 1 (so you can never field two of the same Warcaster in one army!). Warjacks are usually unlimited, although a few special warjacks have been released lately that are 1 or 2 per game. This is rarely a problem because of the huge variety of units/models out there!
Standard game sizes are 350, 500, 750, and sometimes, 1000pts. A battlebox is about 300-350pts, to give you an idea. 500 and 750 are the most commonly played sizes. 1000pts is a pretty large game, and not too many folks do those regularly (although the game's rules scale extremely well to any size game!). Tournaments tend to be 500, or sometimes, 750.
How do infantry function? I'd assume they come in anti-jack and anti-infantry flavors. I'd imagine they're also fairly more manueverable.
How do jacks stand up to them? I take it it's not quite as bad as 40k's "1 las shot, you go away" tank hunters
I've got the quickstart rules pretty well figured out, I take it there are a ton more in the legit rule book. It all seems pretty simple...I'd probably get the Khador box, since their models look neat *insert Stalin conversion* and from what I've heard from a few people is that they are probably the best box you can get.
What makes the Cryx heavies so un desireable?
Not at all! In WM, every model has damage (like 40K wounds). Most infantry has only a single damage box, so one point of damage kills them. Elite infantry, Solos, and Warcasters have multiple damage boxes (Solos tend to be ~5, Warcasters ~15). To use Man-O-Wars as another example, they come with 8 damage boxes each, but a squad is 3-5 men. Winter Guard are one damage box each, but you can take 10 of them for less points than 3 Man-O-Wars.How do jacks stand up to them? I take it it's not quite as bad as 40k's "1 las shot, you go away" tank hunters
Warjacks have damage grids. Think of a grid 6 columns wide, and 4-6 rows deep. Khadorian warjacks usually have 34 damage boxes total in that grid. Other factions' Heavies come in between 25-30 usually. Light warjacks are 20-28 or so. It really depends on factions for exact values, but Khador will be the sturdiest and Cryx will be the weakest (their Lights have only 20 damage apiece).
When you roll to damage someone in Warmachine, it isn't like 40K's "4+, oh, that's a wound!" Instead, you compare the number you rolled for the attack to the defender's armor value. Every point that you exceed that armor value by is a point of damage. So a Warjack with 25 boxes of potential damage on his grid can absorb a total of 25 points of damage over his armor value. Heavy Warjacks can inflict, oh, maybe 10 or so damage in a single attack to another Warjack. Weaker infantry has a hard time getting that kind of damage.
A quick explanation of mechanics, if you're interested:
All models have a Strength (STR), Ranged Attack (RAT), Melee Attack (MAT), Defense (DEF), and Armor (ARM). All weapons have a Power (POW) value. Models have other stats too, but that isn't important to attacking & damaging someone.
Now, when you attack someone, you roll 2D6 and add in either the attacker's MAT (if melee) or RAT (if ranged). That number must equal or exceed the defender's DEF score to hit (the defender doesn't roll any dice). This is equivalent to 40K's "to hit" rolls.
Then the attacker rolls 2D6 again, and this time adds either POW (for a ranged weapon) or STR+POW (for a melee weapon). Compare this number to the defender's ARM value. Ever point over the defender's ARM is a point of damage. This is equivalent to 40K's "to wound" rolls.
With the use of the Warcaster's magic, you actually can add a third D6 to any roll you make, meaning you can do some huge numbers of damage if you try. There are other ways to add dice as well. With one Warcaster, Khador's Butcher, you can get something like 4D6 + his STR+POW of 16! Warjack ranged weapon POWs (or melee weapon POW+STRs) tend to run in the mid teens (with Heavies sometimes being near 20). Infantry is closer to 10 or so. Some infantry, like Knights and Man-O-Wars, have significantly higher damage potentials.
Wow, that went beyond your question a bit ^^ Simply put, every model (including Warjacks) has wounds. The more expensive the model, the more wounds it has!Actually, not too many more rules than in that pamphlet. The rules in there are explained in more depth in the book, and they add in rules for Infantry and Morale. Plus some scenarios, lots of fluff, etc.I've got the quickstart rules pretty well figured out, I take it there are a ton more in the legit rule book. It all seems pretty simple...I'd probably get the Khador box, since their models look neat *insert Stalin conversion* and from what I've heard from a few people is that they are probably the best box you can get.Well, they're significantly weaker than other faction's heavies. In fact, they're more in line with other faction's light warjacks! Cryx is all about speed and deception, not standing up in a fight, and their warjacks reflect this by being veeeery fast, but also very fragile. On the upside, Cryx heavies cost a lot less than other heavies do. But you'll get a lot more mileage out of infantry & light warjacks for those guys.What makes the Cryx heavies so un desireable?
From what I understand a Destroyer with boundless charge, boosted would roll 4d6 correct?
Welcome to Warmachine Rook!
If you get a chance to go to Origins or Gen Con be sure to take your Warmachine minis-- you'll never lack for a game!
1) Scale. I was never very good with scale...Is a Warjack the size of a space marine or something all together larger?<<<<<<<<<<
Warjacks are generally bigger than a space marine. I think the heaviest weighs about 9 tons.
2) I'd be getting the newby box and the rules book. At the moment I'm leaning towards either Cyrx or Khador due to the fact I just like the looks...Wise investment?>>>>>>>>
Sure! They run starter box tournaments.
Also the Jacks in those boxes are solid choices. My wife plays Khador and she always has one of the two Jacks from her starter box in her army. I play Cygnar and I use two of my three almost constantly.
3) Since I don't know much, can anyone explain the units in 40k terms? The translation would be much appreciated.>>>>>>>
Movement & Combat: Instead of moving all your forces and then shooting all your forces and then resolving close combat, you move and then shoot and then resolve close combat each warjack/ unit/ warcaster and then move and shoot the next. I have found that this injects a lot of life into each turn.
No worries on WYSIWYG. Each figure is ready to go as - is: no wargear options so wysiwyg is not a factor.
The direction your models are facing matters in warmachine. likewise attacking an enemy from his rear gives you a bonus. This is a simple rule: the from 180 degrees is your front, the rear 180 is your rear. many players paint a small mark on either side of the models base to make the 180 line and clarify facing.
Hieght has effects on combat. (I love this!) If your units are atop a hill shooting at a unit down below you have an advantage.
ANY unit in warmachine has potential to be a game winner. Yes some are more likely than others but, for example IG guardsmen or Eldar Guardians can pose a threat to the enemies Greater Daemon (putting it in 40K terms) so the Greater Daemon cannot waltz through such formations with no appreciable risk.
No leg breaking rule: if you move your veteran soldiers throuh woods under cover like a sensible commander would (rather than just walk around in plain view) they may be slowed down but you don't risk losing them from difficult terrain tests.
Each army has strengths it generally plays to but you can, with a little thought, comeup with an effective army which breaks the stereotype. For instance Cygnar is generally strong in the shooting departrment but you can field a tough close combat list if you wish.
One thing I'll say about Cryx: they have a Warcaster named Goreshade the Bastard. And let me tell you as someone who has fought against him Goreshade is well named!
Last edited by Montford981; December 3rd, 2006 at 03:58.
"The sword that takes life gives life."
3D6 is the max for most units & models in the game. Some models have a rule that adds 1D6 to their melee damage (usually called "Weapon Master" or something along those lines, but there are variations), and you're free to boost on top of that as normal. And there are spells that modify this as well. But without the use of spells, feats, or model special abilities, 3D6 is the best you can hope for.
Now, when we're talking about models with a P+S of 15 or higher, plus 3D6, against 15-20 ARM... you're still doing a lot of damage on average
So I hunted around and found a pretty nice deal on a rulebook, a cygnar group, Haley and Vlad. 50$ cdn by the time I'm done (since there are no stores around me I have to go over the borders and all that jazz) leaving me to assemble a khador squad out of what ever I like. Once I have the book I imagine I will be able to take a look at unit stats and buy two heavies to compliment Vlad (though if anyone wants to spoil the suprise for me, more power to you)
If anyone happens to know where to pick up some WM mini's second hand, I'd be appreciative...as ebay stores tend to cost me quite a bit in duty.
I think eventually I'd like to add Cryx in there as well, as they seem neat to paint.
Honestly, you can't go wrong with Vlad. His spell Signs & Portents works amazingly well with everything Khador has to offer.leaving me to assemble a khador squad out of what ever I like. Once I have the book I imagine I will be able to take a look at unit stats and buy two heavies to compliment Vlad (though if anyone wants to spoil the suprise for me, more power to you)
You can actually fit three Berserkers into a 350pt army with Vlad, and he can handle those guys better than anyone else in the army (due to S&P). They're in Escalation, if you're curious. Basically, they're cheaper Heavy warjacks with flawed cortexes (cortices?). If you give them Focus, they might blow up! But S&P lets you effectively boost them without giving them Focus, so they become significantly more reliable. And since you don't need to give Vlad's Focus to them, he can cast S&P and Blood of Kings each turn!
I don't blame you if you don't want to use Berserkers, though. Lots of people don't like 'em, and they don't work nearly as well with other casters. In that case, you can pretty much choose any two Khadorian warjacks you like to run with Vlad. I mean, they're all good, and Vlad can handle any of them well. My personal favorites are the Kodiak (Escalation) and the Marauder (Prime), and usually take these guys in a 500pt list with infantry support.I don't know about second-hand, but you can pick up new WM stuff fairly cheaply at TheWarStore.com. Neal there offers a flat discount (10%? 15%? don't remember...) on his stuff, making it pretty much the cheapest gaming store around. Not sure how he handles shipping out of the states, though.If anyone happens to know where to pick up some WM mini's second hand, I'd be appreciative...as ebay stores tend to cost me quite a bit in duty.
I have a bunch of Warmachine figs that I will part with. It's either that or make an anchor out of them...I've been leaning towards the anchor for a while...