Tale of Painters, 1st Company - Finished Armies & Voting

[Cyric the Mad]

Thanks for looking out, Caveman. I've recorded hivetyrant's votes.

For the rest of our voters though, I'd prefer to receive the votes via PM. Thanks for the votes so far, folks. Keep 'em comin!

[Cyric the Mad]

Those of you who finished the project may notice that you now have a shiny award! Congrats again, and thanks to Blackhat for hooking us up with a shiny medal.

[Tekore]

Oh man, my first award! So hot right now!

Tekore

[chemicalcaveman]

Thanks guys for the sweet new bling!

How is the voting coming along Cyric?

[Cyric the Mad]

I've got votes in from 10 or so people at the moment. I'm hoping to get a few more folks chiming in before this thing wraps up.

So since we've got some time until then and this whole big thread to mess around with, I figured I'd open the floor to feedback regarding the project in general. While I've received kind messages from many of you regarding the project, I want to make absolutely sure there isn't any way I can make things run a little more smoothly.

For example, should I share the progress more frequently? Toward the end of this project discrepancies began popping up between the records I had kept and the reported totals. Do you think this is a big deal? Would you benefit more from the structure of a running total of your progress, or would you rather have the flexibility to paint whatever strikes your fancy and modify and fill out your list at the end of the project?

Do you feel the deadlines have been too strict or too lenient? The free Christmas joker comes to mind in this case. I remember back when I began considering the free joker, I asked minus_t for his feedback and he said something that I have been trying to use as a mantra regarding this project ever since. He said, "It's a motivational tool, not a way of life." I've tried to display this attitude toward the project in general, but if at any point you guys feel I am being unfair, please don't hesitate to speak up.

So how about it? Anything we can do to make these better/more fun?

[xbanditsx]

I have one piece of feedback and it deals with what counts as a monthly submission. Recently you submitted a single veteran (I think) instead of using a joker. I don't personally have a problem with this - I agree with the motivational tool rather than way of life comment - but the rules of the project suggest that you couldn't do that. My first joker was used because I only had 50 or so points finished for that month because I thought a submission of that size wouldn't count.

I was very protective of my jokers and would often spend the last two or three nights before a deadline working feverishly getting my submission up around 200 points so that I could save them. Having those two cushions is a big boost to feeling like you can get the project done, and knowing that I could have submitted something significantly less than 200 points for a month might give people a little more confidence. Consistently doing this shorting your submissions will bite you later on but that is your problem to deal with. I would bet that the overall points total for submitted models would have been higher if people felt that they could put in less some months.

This is such a small thing though. Overall this project was run phenomenally well and I'd like to thank you yet again for seeing it through the way that you did (and continue to do).

[Deadstar_MRC]

Firstly, I'm hoping to get my votes in this weekend - I need to get to a computer where I can see everyone's pictures first!

Secondly, feedback on the project;

I really thought the running of the project was fine. I know I posted a list at the start of the Tale of Painters, and I predominantly stuck to that list because it was also my shopping list, and those miniatures were all that I had!

But I don't think people should have to paint to a list. Armies will change, especially if GW revamps the army in the middle of the project. Or if you play a few games and particular units aren't working for you.

I think flexibility is a good idea. People can paint to a list if they want, but I think building a list throughout the project can work as well. It might even be easier to keep track of, as all you are doing is adding units as they are submitted.

The Christmas joker is also a good idea. Holidays and festivities can quite easily take preference over a painting deadline. But it can be a good time to catch up as well, for those struggling with the project; it might actually keep a few people in when they may otherwise drop out.

Maybe the only thing that could make this challenge better is a points range for submissions, rather than a flat target. Perhaps an "aim for 200 points, but generally your submission should be between 100-300 points," or something like that.

Constantly coming up short, as xbanditsx said, will be to your own detriment. But if you have a slightly less productive month, you can still submit what you've done and try and catch up later.

Other than that, I think the project is fine as is, and was incredibly well run for something that could potentially get mightily confusing.

[ShadowZora13]

Coulda sworn I had already posted in here, but since it doesn't look like it, I'll do it now.

Great job everyone. Really great seeing all of these armies come together alongside my own. Really inspiring, and you should all be proud for getting this done. Might not be the quickest way to paint an army, but it keeps you motivated when you really don't want to paint, which would result in it taking longer to get done. I am not too ashamed to say the ToP is the only thing keeping me coming to LO (well, projects forum in general). And no, I am not defecting to anywhere else, just don't go to forums much anymore at all...

Really looking forward to seeing hopefully all of you (haven't been paying attention to who all is joining the 2nd wave) in the next ToP in a month. Personally, I am at the moment building my small horde of Death Guard CSM, getting everything ready so i can do all the green stuff work on the army at once.

And yes, I think I have some decent plans to make this army 5th edition codex compatible, even if it means doing counts as captain with my chappie.

Thanks again to cyric for keeping this going.

[Cyric the Mad]

Originally Posted by xbanditsx

I have one piece of feedback and it deals with what counts as a monthly submission. Recently you submitted a single veteran (I think) instead of using a joker. I don't personally have a problem with this - I agree with the motivational tool rather than way of life comment - but the rules of the project suggest that you couldn't do that.

Originally Posted by Deadstar_MRC

Maybe the only thing that could make this challenge better is a points range for submissions, rather than a flat target. Perhaps an "aim for 200 points, but generally your submission should be between 100-300 points," or something like that.

Constantly coming up short, as xbanditsx said, will be to your own detriment. But if you have a slightly less productive month, you can still submit what you've done and try and catch up later.

The intent was always that folks could post whatever they had done and not have to use a joker, but you're right - the wording of the rules wasn't clear on this. This issue has actually been addressed in the newest rules posted for the 2nd company addition, which state:

Q. What if I paint less than 200 (100) points in a month?
A. The idea is to motivate you to paint, so as long as you have something new to show, nobody will come down on you too hard. However, multiple months of falling short of the deadline will put you in a rough spot at the end of the project. Remember, even if you enter something each month, if you don’t complete a legal list by the end, you don’t complete the project. Entering just a few points worth will save you from having to use a joker, but will hurt in the long run if you don’t make up the points.

My main reason for keeping the 200pt entry clearly outlined is that people should try to think as close to that line as possible - if you don't average that much a month you will not finish. Human nature can lead us to strive for the minimum requirement in a pinch, so an explicitly outlined range of X-200pts would probably make people inclined to strive for the X rather than the 200, which would create bigger problems in the long run. A defined range like that would also cause confusion regarding models that cost more than 200 points. It has taken some effort to allay the existing confusion in this matter already, so I'd be afraid of making it worse.

Originally Posted by Deadstar_MRC

But I don't think people should have to paint to a list. Armies will change, especially if GW revamps the army in the middle of the project. Or if you play a few games and particular units aren't working for you.

I think flexibility is a good idea. People can paint to a list if they want, but I think building a list throughout the project can work as well. It might even be easier to keep track of, as all you are doing is adding units as they are submitted.

Technically nobody has to paint to a pre-determined list currently. You have to have a legal army made up of your submissions when the project is over, so conceiving a list ahead of time is a good idea, but if you'd rather build it as you go that's fine too. The only danger in that is that sometimes continual revision of your list will mean that you don't want to use a unit that you already submitted, yet you're kind of locked into it.

I currently track the progress of each member in complete ignorance of the exact list they are building. I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be to monitor so many lists. What I meant to ask was if a monthly update of the units I have from each person and a running point total would be beneficial.

Originally Posted by Deadstar_MRC

The Christmas joker is also a good idea. Holidays and festivities can quite easily take preference over a painting deadline. But it can be a good time to catch up as well, for those struggling with the project; it might actually keep a few people in when they may otherwise drop out.

I'll say that the Christmas joker is likely to return, but I won't promise it. The first project got a free joker because the January deadline unfortunately coincided with the third entry - both projects have shown that the third entry is a crucial point for the project, since it's the first entry that will see members drop from lack of jokers. I basically didn't want to see a rush of people dropping because of their holiday schedules, hence the free joker.

So yeah, don't plan your schedule as if there will be a free joker. This time around, we as a community are more aware of the project and what it entails. And this time around, the project has some more explicitly-outlined flexibility to allow for circumstance. The decision to give or not give a free joker will be based on the state of the project at the time.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

[King Ulrik Flamebeard]

Well, well, well!! I am glad this project worked well enough to get so many people to complete an army. I am impressed! I apologise for bailing and leaving it up to Cyric but he seemed up to the job, and well...he needs all the jobs he can get. But you all did an amazing job, I'm happy it worked well for you all.

To those who completed the challenge, you might see some rare Kuffy rep in your little box. That's my contribution. But you might also see that Minus_t doesn't have any. Because he FAILED. Let that be a lesson to you. =P XD

Again, congrats to those entering and to Cyric for doing such a great job. =)

Kuffy