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  1. #1
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Precon to Custom deck

    I started out with the 9th ed Fire theme deck, World Aflame. Played a few games with it and had a great success rate. Quickly got hold of Shadowmoors Army of Entropy (Red/Black) and again, fantsatic success rate. It did feel somewhat like it was the deck that was winning however and not me.

    So ive decided to aim for a Black Red deck, based on AoEntropy. Basically using only Black/Red creatures, spells and instants, it should hopefully give me a solid fire deck with some pretty strong creatures.

    Ill get the deck list itself up soon, just have a few things to finalise to round it up to 60 cards.


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  3. #2
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    146 (x7)

    I'm fairly curious about how the deck looks right now. Here's some tips from experience if you're interested:

    - Land should be around 40% of the deck (so around 24 or so). You can go lower if you use a lot of low-cost cards
    - Give the deck a theme-> a specific way you want it to work. If you want the deck to win using a combo in one turn, build it with that in mind. If you would rather kill the opponent with creatures, then don't include that 3 card instant win combo and vice versa.
    - Don't be a slave to the theme. Its fine to include good cards that will help your deck even if they aren't quite in theme as long as they help, and if you pick a theme like a specific creature type then don't feel like you have to include only cards of that kind.

    Anyways, there's a couple of tips whether you knew them already or not. I look forward to seeing your deck.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  4. #3
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Thanks for the input. I removed all the unwanted cards from AoEntropy, and fixed the land numbers to give me a good 40 card base which i will aim to build on. The 40 card deck looks something like this:

    9 Mountains
    9 Swamps
    3 Ashenmoor Gorger
    1 Ashenmoor Liege
    2 Ashenmoor Cohort
    3 Emberstrike Duo
    3 Murderous Redcap
    2 Blistering Direflyn (was going to remove these until a mate pointed out i could use abilities as much as i like)
    2 Fists of the Demigod
    2 Scar
    2 similar to scar, i forget the name
    2 Torrent of Souls (considering removing these, one or both)
    1 Din of the Fireherd (Dam thing... taunts me, but i like it)


    This is just from memory, ill check it when i feeling a bit less ill

  5. #4
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    146 (x7)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Thanks for the input. I removed all the unwanted cards from AoEntropy, and fixed the land numbers to give me a good 40 card base which i will aim to build on. The 40 card deck looks something like this:

    9 Mountains
    9 Swamps
    3 Ashenmoor Gorger
    1 Ashenmoor Liege
    2 Ashenmoor Cohort
    3 Emberstrike Duo
    3 Murderous Redcap
    2 Blistering Direflyn (was going to remove these until a mate pointed out i could use abilities as much as i like)
    2 Fists of the Demigod
    2 Scar
    2 similar to scar, i forget the name
    2 Torrent of Souls (considering removing these, one or both)
    1 Din of the Fireherd (Dam thing... taunts me, but i like it)


    This is just from memory, ill check it when i feeling a bit less ill
    You have a lot of hybrid cards, which is good for this kind of deck. However, the minimum deck size is 60 cards so you come up a bit short.

    First things first: Cut the 2 Ashenmoor Cohort. These are bad-> they're overcosted at best and very overcosted at worst. The Blistering Dieflyns are also overcosted for what they do. There's a very useful Lorwyn card that you should get 4 of: Nameless Inversion. Its an instant that gives the target +3/-3, so it will kill most things. You seem to have a nice theme going for cards that give bonuses to your multicoloured cards, so getting more Ashenmoor Leiges might be useful. Keep the Torrent of Souls-> they're pretty good.

    You don't seem to have much evasion so some Aphotic Wisps might be useful, as can be Manamorphose due to the fact that it effectively lowers the number of cards in your deck for higher consistency. Spiteful Visions could also help your card drawing and it deals damage. However, it does help the opponent a bit, but its a fun casual card.

    So essentially:
    - Bring it up to 60 cards
    - Remove the Dieflyns and the cohorts
    - Add 4 nameless inversions and possibly some red burn spells
    - try to pick up more R/B hybrid cards and more leiges
    - It might be useful to get some cards such as Aphotic Wisps and Manamorphose to help with card drawing for higher consistency (plus Aphotic Wisps gives fear)
    - Spiteful Vision is a lot like an old card I really liked that was always fun to use, so I'm willing to bet any game that involves it would be a blast

    I made sure to only recommend cards taht would be fairly easy and cheap to get a hold of. Considering you play Warhammer, I doubt you want to spend over $100 on a magic deck. You can probably pick up the leiges and spiteful visions for maybe $3-$4 each and the other cards are probably around 25c-50c each at most.

    Overall it looks pretty good for a firstime deck modification. It has some consistency and keeps to a single theme. Nice job. Most of your cards seem to cost 4 or less mana so you can probably get by with a slightly smaller mana base than you have-> I would bet that you could make do with 16 land in that deck. Also, I usually choose my lands according to ratio, though if one colour is a bit more important than the other I'll add a couple of extra of that type.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    52 (x2)

    The deck looks good, but since the deck is creature base, the mana curve is a bit funky.

    Essentially it looks like this:
    1:2
    2:7
    3:3
    4:4
    5:2
    6:2
    7:1

    Now for creature base decks, you can see the lack of 1 cost cards. If, what I'm getting at, the deck is essentially aggro with burn. Some suggestions...
    9 Mountains
    9 Swamps

    First, Drop the Ashenmoor Gorger to 2. He is good, but the cost of 3 can hinder (also I know many people that play this guy. There is one guy at my place with a very good elemental deck and he runs about 2-3 of these guys now). Add 1 more Emberstrike Duo. Add 3 Smolder Initiate and 3 Intimidator Initiate. If you can, get 1-2 more Ashenmoor Liege. Drop the Cohort; the card is really bad and for its ability (which isn't much) is not worth the 6 mana. Throw in 2 Spiteful Visions for lose of life for opponent, 2 more Fists of the Demigod, and 3 Shock. Drop Murderous Redcap amd replace it with 4 Nameless Inversion. Drop Blistering Direflyn. Add 3 Scarscale Ritual. Ritual Is an extremely good card in my view. It cost 2 mana and has you draw 2 cards. The only "downside" (if it is a downside) you have to put a -1/-1 counter on your creature. Finally put in 2 Spiteflame Witch. Now if throw in 2 Graven Cairns for land and take out 2 land.

    With this the mana curve is something like this.
    1:13
    2:16
    3:4
    4:6
    5:2
    6: 0
    7:1

    Now the deck is 60 cards with very fast quick creatures with something that is better than burn, lose of life (people can't prevent this). And you have creatures that can hit hard and deal good damage to the opponent.

    I'm not sure if this actually will work in the game, but just play test it to see how it runs and tell me how it did and what problems you ran into.

    Phalanx - Torrent of Souls is more than just "pretty good." Its very good where people I know are not trading them. And as mention with my view, Cohort is actually good. 3 mana for a 4/4 is nice. A guy that has a very well built Elemental deck now has him in the deck and the cohort has down some nasty damage.
    Last edited by Nemy; June 26th, 2008 at 05:57.
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  7. #6
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    You have a lot of hybrid cards, which is good for this kind of deck.
    Yep, the idea is to run it as a Black/Red deck boosted by the lieges. Im aiming to get one more Liege atleast.

    However, the minimum deck size is 60 cards so you come up a bit short.
    Yea i know, its ok for now, my mates are fine with anything 40+

    First things first: Cut the 2 Ashenmoor Cohort. These are bad
    Agreed. Theyre just there to make up numbers for now, and as a 5/4 they arent too bad, aldo giving me life when, if, i get hold of a couple of Demons Horns.


    Thanks for the awesome feedback and hints


    Nemy, what are these
    x:y
    z:a
    ratio things youre using? I cant see their meaning..

    Edit: Oh, wait, i think i do. Its the number of spells and the mana required listed in order yep?
    Last edited by Phoenix; June 26th, 2008 at 12:42.

  8. #7
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    146 (x7)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemy View Post
    The deck looks good, but since the deck is creature base, the mana curve is a bit funky.

    Essentially it looks like this:
    1:2
    2:7
    3:3
    4:4
    5:2
    6:2
    7:1

    Now for creature base decks, you can see the lack of 1 cost cards. If, what I'm getting at, the deck is essentially aggro with burn. Some suggestions...
    9 Mountains
    9 Swamps

    First, Drop the Ashenmoor Gorger to 2. He is good, but the cost of 3 can hinder (also I know many people that play this guy. There is one guy at my place with a very good elemental deck and he runs about 2-3 of these guys now). Add 1 more Emberstrike Duo. Add 3 Smolder Initiate and 3 Intimidator Initiate. If you can, get 1-2 more Ashenmoor Liege. Drop the Cohort; the card is really bad and for its ability (which isn't much) is not worth the 6 mana. Throw in 2 Spiteful Visions for lose of life for opponent, 2 more Fists of the Demigod, and 3 Shock. Drop Murderous Redcap amd replace it with 4 Nameless Inversion. Drop Blistering Direflyn. Add 3 Scarscale Ritual. Ritual Is an extremely good card in my view. It cost 2 mana and has you draw 2 cards. The only "downside" (if it is a downside) you have to put a -1/-1 counter on your creature. Finally put in 2 Spiteflame Witch. Now if throw in 2 Graven Cairns for land and take out 2 land.

    With this the mana curve is something like this.
    1:13
    2:16
    3:4
    4:6
    5:2
    6: 0
    7:1

    Now the deck is 60 cards with very fast quick creatures with something that is better than burn, lose of life (people can't prevent this). And you have creatures that can hit hard and deal good damage to the opponent.

    I'm not sure if this actually will work in the game, but just play test it to see how it runs and tell me how it did and what problems you ran into.

    Phalanx - Torrent of Souls is more than just "pretty good." Its very good where people I know are not trading them. And as mention with my view, Cohort is actually good. 3 mana for a 4/4 is nice. A guy that has a very well built Elemental deck now has him in the deck and the cohort has down some nasty damage.
    I think you have the gorger and the cohort mixed up in that last paragraph. The gorger is quite good at a 4/4 for essentially 3 colourless in this deck while getting all the buffs he has for it being duel coloured. Scarscale ritual is a card I looked at when I was thinking of cards to add (card draw is pretty important), but I wasn't sure if taking the -1/-1 was worth it in this deck since it goes so aggro. Thats why I had mentioned the fear cantrip(it wouldn't be hard to get 8 damage from an single creature in this deck) and Manamorphse, which is essentially a free card because it doesn't really have any effect other than lowering the deck count.

    I was figuring Torrent of Souls would be highly used. Its only 1 mana more than zombify and you get an nice secondary effect out of it. Here is easily a finisher.

    I hadn't run the numbers for the curve, but I had noted before it seemed it was mostly 4 or less. You probably have better recommendations-> I haven't played since before Shadowmoor came out and I haven't even looked at most of the cards from it yet. I had also tried to stay away from recommending too many cards-> if he's new then he wouldn't have access to a lot of card, and especially quality rares like the cairns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    You have a lot of hybrid cards, which is good for this kind of deck.
    Yep, the idea is to run it as a Black/Red deck boosted by the lieges. Im aiming to get one more Liege atleast.

    However, the minimum deck size is 60 cards so you come up a bit short.
    Yea i know, its ok for now, my mates are fine with anything 40+

    First things first: Cut the 2 Ashenmoor Cohort. These are bad
    Agreed. Theyre just there to make up numbers for now, and as a 5/4 they arent too bad, aldo giving me life when, if, i get hold of a couple of Demons Horns.


    Thanks for the awesome feedback and hints


    Nemy, what are these
    x:y
    z:a
    ratio things youre using? I cant see their meaning..

    Edit: Oh, wait, i think i do. Its the number of spells and the mana required listed in order yep?
    Thats exactly what it is. Its a useful think to look at so you can plan what you'll be doing the first few turns of a game.

    Anyways, its also fun to give feedback on decks and stuff (even when someone else more helpful appears right after). I'd like to hear how well your deck plays.
    Last edited by Phalanx; June 26th, 2008 at 16:37.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
    Current Rep: 1337

  9. #8
    Senior Member Nemy's Avatar
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    52 (x2)

    Phalanx - Oops. Yea...I did get the 2 mixed up. But anyways, yea the good rare cards I mentioned are stuff he can get by trading or buying from others. So in the mean time he can just replace the cards that are expensive in price or people won't give up easily with other cards that follow the theme of the deck but are easier to obtained . And I re-started since like 3 years ago personally. Just the people I play with (especially 4-5 guys which are very good players and been in tournys a lot) I tend to pick up what are good cards or not for each type of format you can play.

    Sorry about the mana curve chart I gave you Phoenix. Its something I use a lot when trying to figure out the mana in my deck. People taught me is that its usually good to have a higher 1 cost cards than the most expensive costing cards, unless the deck's theme can handle cards that have a cost of, lets say, 7.
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  10. #9
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Right, finally gonna get up a complete list of my deck. Its a 60 card deck, some cards i have are definitely going to stay, some cards im undecided, and some are going to go once i get more cards that i definitely/maybe want.

    Current deck

    12 Mountain
    12 Swamp

    2 Dragon's Claw
    1 Demon's Horn

    1 Chandra Nalaar

    1 Ashenmoor Liege
    3 Ashenmoor Gouger
    2 Kulrath Knight
    2 Murderous Redcap
    2 Emberstrike Duo

    2 Torrent of Souls

    2 Fists of the Demigod

    3 Scar

    So, thats the 45 cards i have which will form the base of the deck. The rest of the cards i want expand on that theme.


    These 15 are currently in my deck, but may be removed

    2 Blistering Dieflyn
    2 Mudbrawler Cohort
    2 Vulshok Sorcerer
    2 Iron-Barb Helion
    2 Cinderbones

    1 Din of the Fireherd (VERY undecided on this, it seems to taunt me, would like opinions please)

    1 Beacon of Destruction
    1 Smash to Smithereens
    2 Puncture Bolt

    So with these 15 added in, it becomes slightly Red heavy, so i may need a mountain or two more. But its working of for now (so long as i dont get mana screwed lol) and should be more balanced once i get hold of the following:


    These are cards i want to add to the initial 45 to round out and complete the deck:

    Definite
    1 Liliana Vess
    1 Ashenmoor Liege
    1 Demon's Claw

    Possibily
    2 Cultbrand Cinder
    4 Demigod of Revenge (yea.. in my dreams )
    2 Fulminator Mage
    2 Manaforge Cinder
    2 Sootstoke Kindler

    2 Sootwalkers
    2 Spiteflame Witch

    2 Tyrannize
    2 Poison the Well
    2 Flame Javelin

    Phew, and thats just a quick scan through the Shadowmoor Red/Blacks. There are also some single colour cards that interest me, but ill end up with an 100 card deck lol. These ones here are just something to give me a sideboard as well as round out the deck, although Mrs Vess if definitely in! As is the Liege. If i manage to grab any Creatures which are in the original 45 then they would be added too.
    Last edited by Phoenix; July 1st, 2008 at 15:37.

  11. #10
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    Dude, you've gotta keep Fireherd in. It's hilarious watching your reaction when it appears. Yes, I may have played Phoenix a couple of times up in Lancaster :-p

    Seriously, it's worth keeping in for that one shining moment when it works. All the times when it didn't appear, or appeared at the wrong time won't matter anymore! Plus, the artwork is pretty as :-)

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