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I saw Gore Warrior's cool Sanguinius rules and decided to draft up some rules for Fulgrim, as I am planning on taking my Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children army to the next level by going Apoc soon and would like to include him. Please comment as I have never homegrown rules before and I dunno about points costs.
Points - 800 (950 with 1 Guard, 1050 with 2)
WS - 9
BS - 6
Wargear:Fireblade, The Phoenician Bands, Eagle Circlet, Cloak of Feather-Blades, Boltpistol
Special Rules:Lord Of Perfection, Phoenix Guard
Fireblade: The golden blade crafted by Ferrus Manus himself in the forges of the Urals. It is said it has burned ever after with the power and strength of the forges that gave it birth, and that no finer weapon was ever wielded, save the legendary sword of the Ancient Hero called Nuada Silverhand. It is crafted in sleek form, every piece shimmering gold, and the guard worked and inlaid with ivory and amethyst to resemble a stylized phoenix in flight, a ever present symbol of hope and glory.
Counts as a Master-Crafted Power Weapon that re-rolls all failed hits, rather than one, and grants +2S and +1I.
The Phoenician Bands:Forged by Fulgrims own hand on board the Vengeful Spirit while his legion was recuperating from an unknown disaster, this armor was born from the remnants and shards of the fallen warriors Fulgrim was to never meet.
They say the Phoenician wept as he forged each band of the great suit of lamellar armor, his tears falling in amongst the molten alloys. It was also said the spirit and memory of his fallen sons was forged into each piece, as well as the memory of how close to failure the Legion had come, and that over it Fulgrim made the vow to never be laid so low again.
Grants Fulgrim a 2+ armour save
Eagle Circlet:This circlet was gifted to Fulgrim by the Emperor upon the day he stood to lead his Legion, arising from the soil of Chemos to receive it from the very brow of the Emperor. It takes the appearance of a single, plain Imperial Eagle and a thin golden band.
It acts as a Primarchs Iron Halo and grants a 3+ invulnerable save, as well as forcing every unit in close combat with Fulgrim to make a leadership test to see whether they hold or turn and flee from the Lord of Perfections countenance.
Cloak Of Feather-Blades:An artifact created by master artificers from Chemos trained upon mars, the Cloak of Feather-Blades is formed of razor sharp adamnatium, and the sheen of it can often blind or stun an enemy.
It counts as an adamantine mantle, granting immunity to instant death, and has the following effects:
At the start of the assault phase, roll a d6. On a roll of 5+, any enemy unit wishing to assault Fulgrim will strike after all other blows have been resolved (after power fists and such).
In addition, if Fulgrim has not fired his bolt pistol this turn, any enemy unit wishing to shoot at him must shoot at him at -1 BS due to the swirling kaleidoscope of colors the cloak creates.
Lord Of Perfection:Fulgrim's presence on the battlefeild inspires feats of heroism in the men within his sight, each striving to show their Primarch aspects of their perfection (or at least attempts at perfection). To represent this any Emperor's Children model within 12" of Fulgrim is Stubborn.
Phoenix Guard:Fulgrim was most noted for entering battle with at least two of his most trusted companions with him. These fierce combatants were the equal of any Chapter Master of today, and were sources of great pride and inspiration to their Legion. Each Phoenix Guard (may only take up to two) counts as a Master (with statline, etc..) excepting in that they may not take retinues (although if Fulgrim is killed, they may then operate as Independent Characters), and that their Wargear is fixed. It costs 150 points for one, or 250 points for two.
This set of wargear includes a power glaive/halbred (treat it as a Nemesis Force weapon: Power weapon w/ + 2 str). and a master-crafted bolter. They are also granted incredibly rich and ornate suits of artificier armor, and each presented with a necklace in the shape of a phoenix icon, crafted by Fulgrim himself, which confer their saves (2+ armor, 4+ invulnerable).
intresting, im known to be quite a dwner on things like this and tend to pick and complain, but it looks quite good to me, maby one or two tomany special rules compared to offical stuff (angron) but i like it, well done my frined, reps for you.
PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~
Yea I know its got alot of rules compared to normal stuff, but I figure its a primarch and is homegrown rules so why not... even if GW ever did make an official rules set for Fulgrim, that i could modify/represent to change from chaos to Imperial, It would prolly be only 500 points like Angron is... So why not have a little fun, pay too many points, and have too many special rules. Glad the points costs arn't off, as I said ive never done anything homegrown before, now I just gotta get the guys at my local GW to let me use him in one of those 60,000 point, 24 person battles we have every once in a while... I also need to add a couple of thousand points to my army and get a warhound and a baneblade so that I can even play Apoc....
I like it... it seems very fun and fluffy. Just a note thats come up with most rules developments... any explanations for the str 7 and the toughness 7? I sincerely hope that there's a sweet model conversion to go along with it!
Explanations for the S7 and T7 come from the fact that he that he is a primarch. I plan on making him nice and big (like he's supposed to be) to represent this. Believe me, this is not going to be some lame chapter master I called fulgrim and put on the table.
He's gunna look cool
O and also I will be posting him in the painting section once I am makin him, prolly a WIP thread.
If marines are to men what primarchs were to marines, then Primarchs would probably be max S/T 6 - maybe Leman Russ would be S7 when berserking, but the gradations in a D6 system with only 10 points of increment mean that a Marine commander, who is several centuries old and easily capable of destroying a company of guardsmen on his lonesome, is still only +1 on the S and T statlines.
And 7(??) attacks? That's a little steep, when, again, a marine commander has 3/4 depending on how equipped /who he is, and that's not even that many more than a Guard commander. I'd see Primarchs as force multipliers, make them immune to instant death, give them 4+ "ward" saves which can NEVER be removed, make them immune to the powers of the warp, etc etc, but they are not as big, tough or strong as a Carnifex, they are just so skilled they will take a Carnifex apart.
I know Sanguinius took on and defeated a Blood Thirster, even when tired and woudned. He was designed to be able to do things like this, and its a HEROIC feat - after all, even a certain Captail Thule took down a Blood Thirster in Dawn of War, and a company of Grey Knights slew a bodyguard of them, when defeating Angron at Armageddon - yet I don't see stat lines withs 6s/7s (apart from WS/BS) on Grey Knights....
I was reading how people made rules for primarch's on another web site, and they had a theory that Horus would be 7 all around before wargear, and that the other primarch's would be higher or lower in certain stats based on their fluff. While I agree with you that these rules are probebly unrealistic, I dont want them to be realistic, because realistically fulgrim would take on a more powerful carnifex with skill, and probably tear it apart, but in game terms he could get torn apart, which I dont like very much. Id rather pay an obscene amount of points for the ideal of a primarch, a death dealing demigod of war who cuts swathes of people down with each stroke of his sword and seems to be invincible.
So yea id rather take an unrealistic ideal that is still fair as im paying for it then take a realistic representation that could die rather easily. Truth be told, most of my enemies would focus alot of firepower on fulgrim if I played with these rules, which in itsself is unrealistic (I dont care how powerful one person seems an entire army will not shoot at him and not at the other army in front of him), so he would need to be extremely hard to kill to even get into combat.
Also as for Captain whatsisface and Grey Knights taking on a bloodthirstier, I like to think thatthat was a normal bloodthirstier, whereas the one sanguinius fought was more along the lines of the Apoc one... maybe not THAT powerful, as I seem to remember he fought more than one, (not at the same time), and he killed at least one with his bare hands, and he was tired, so sanguinius is in a totally different league from even the oldest of space-marine captains/GK's.
Erm - the 1st War for Armageddon was led by Angron, and he had a bodyguard of BloodThirsters of Khorne, and a massive chaos legion, including elements of the World Eaters etc.
Against these were the planetary defence force, Logan Grimnar and the Space Wolves, and a company of Grey Knights.
Now last time I checked, Angron was a Primarch and he is now a DEMON primarch, arguably more powerful than your typical demon prince/Blood Thirster etc etc.
Given that a bodyguard of Blood Thristers and Angron himself were taken down by 100 Grey Knights (presumably in terminator armour) for very heavy losses on the GK part, I would presume that the typical GK is indeed a very powerful warrior, and is roughly 1/10th of a Primarch in terms of raw power including resistance to the creatures of teh warp.
If this is indeed true, then statlines of 7 across the board are just too high. The highest toughness achievable for a "normal" character in 40K is 5 (Mark of Nurgle or riding a bike) - thus the toughest that a Primarch should be is a little tougher - i.e. 6. Similarly, S5 is achievable without wargear by virtue of furious charge etc, and as such a Primarch should be a little stronger, i.e. 6.
Now there is room for variation - Sanguinius had some wicked wargear, as did Fulgirm. Leman Russ had Mjalnir the frostblade, which adds +1 S to his already imrpessive S statistic, and you could make it "count as a chainfist" instead of a traditional frost blade. I am sure that Angron could have the odd attack extra on the charge due to his berserk fury, and wily Khan could sit himself on a bike to benefit from an additional +1 T, or attack bike to make his save even better.
Dorn no doubt had a big sword that could be wielded as a power fist if required (simialr to the Emperor's Champion - Dorn was actually given this title first), and Gulliman had his gauntlets.
And Konrad would probably use his bare hands, or more likely, in a battlefield situation he would probbaly wear power claws (to actually help parry enemy attacks).
If Captain Kharn had a chainaxe with blades from a mica dragon of Luther McIntyre, then I would very much doubt Angron would go around with a lesser weapon (indeed, per the Horus Heresy books, he rolled with two weapons capable fo cleaving marines in two with a single blow..)
The way the Primarchs read in the Heresy books, and the image I have always had of them (since discarding Rogue Trader "old fluff" - Russ being a guard commander etc etc) is that these guys are the terrible young princes of the Imperium, who thought themselves nigh on invincible (which goes a LONG way lending you an aura of invincibility) and were excellent leaders and generals, but if they were one-man armies, then it would add little credence to the need for having the Space Marine legions - just send Horus in at the head of a Guard army or Titan legion, and you win....
And whilst you don;t want a Primarch to get torn apart by a Carnifex (wqhich is dubious - the Carnifex can't autokill something a T6, and hasn't got the WS or I to attack first), I would argue that it WOULD feasible for him to be torn apart by one unarmed and unarmoured, it would only be his wargear and superior weaponry that would save him - after all, the Emperor and Horus were having a tough time during the Ullanor crusade against mere Ork warlords...(I seem to remember that one or the other was being choked by one...)
Also, given that weaponry that would be able to wound a Primarch is going to be strength 7+ (meltas lascannon etc) and bypass his save, why would Primarchs even wear armour?
Primarchs wore armour because even bolter shells (which are game strength 4 for balance reasons) could wound them. And being T7 negates this important fact from the game.
Last edited by kithre; August 27th, 2008 at 09:31.