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  1. #1
    LO Zealot BossGorestompa's Avatar
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    Kill Points and Imperial Guardsmen

    I doubt that many people will disagree: replacing Victory Points with Kill Points was largely a bad idea. It has its benefits, most notable is simplifying victory calculations; however, it undoubtedly hurts certain armies far more than it benefits the game. Few armies were truly harmed by this change like the Imperial Guard.

    The Guard offer a bare minimum of ten kill points by fulfilling compulsory slots on the force organization chart, and that only for 320 points (minimum). At full force the Guardsmen will offer a foe twice the kill points while being twice as easy to kill.

    It appears as though there will be no errata released until Games Workshop releases the next Codex: Imperial Guard. I've thought long and hard about how to find a balanced solution to this problem. It occurred to me that, while players could simply consent to using the old Victory Point rules for Annihilation missions, something much more fun could be devised. What I propose is a change to select Imperial Guard units and wargear choices to affect the way the way a Guardsmen army interacts with Kill Points.

    The following rules are to be used with your opponents consent in house games, and possibly even house tournaments.

    Command Squads: Command squads will still offer two Kill Points - one for the Officer, and one for his staff; however, they will gain the following special rules:

    Chain of Command: So long as a Senior or Heroic Senior Officer remains alive to lead a Command Platoon, or a Junior Officer remains alive to lead an Infantry or Heavy Weapons Platoon, their platoons will only be worth a maximum of two Kill Points. The first Kill Point is awarded when the first squad is removed from the game, and the second Kill Point is awarded when the last squad is removed. This rule does not extend to the Command Squad, only their Infantry and Support squads, and only if the squads remain at least partially within 12" of their respective command element.

    Example: An Infantry Platoon of four squads is lead by a Junior Officer and his command squad. If the Junior Officer is alive at the end of the game, any number of squads within his platoon that are killed within 12" of him will only offer a single kill point so long as another squad remains alive and within 12" of him. If all squads which remained within 12" of the Junior Officer are killed, they will only offer up to two kill points. Any squads that move more than 12" away from the Junior Officer and are killed are worth a kill point as normal. If the Junior Officer is killed, then each squad under his command are worth a single kill point as normal.

    Issue Orders: A Senior or Heroic Senior Officer may issue orders before the battle begins but after all sides have deployed and reserves have been declared. Up to two enemy units or independent characters, whether held in reserves or not, may be marked as high priority targets and will be worth an additional kill point if destroyed. Note that only two enemy units may be marked in this manner, even if the army contains a second Senior or Heroic Senior Officer.

    Wargear
    Vox Casters: A squad that has a Vox Caster will ignore the 12" range rule for Chain of Command so long as that squad's Officer remains alive, and only if the Officer's command squad has a surviving Vox Caster at the end of the game.

    Master Vox: A command squad with a Master Vox can nominate one other squad with a Vox Caster at the end of the game. That squad will benefit from the command squad's Chain of Command rule, even if the squad wasn't a part of the command squad's platoon.

    Regimental Standard: Any squad within 12" of a Regimental Standard will benefit from it's command squads Chain of Command rule, even if the squad wasn't a part of the command squad's platoon.

    ***

    These rules may seem a bit complicated at first, but I think that if you read over them once or twice and become familiar with how they work, then they can add a fun strategic twist to how Imperial Guard could be played. I devised these rules with command squads in mind. The importance of command is an important but misrepresented aspect of an Imperial Guard army. These rules changes work towards adding a strategic importance to Imperial Guard command structure - which without it, a Guard army would fall apart. If you feel that these rules would complicate the game too much, or you are just uncomfortable with them, I have also devised an alternative alternative set of rules. Should you choose to use these rules instead, then do not include any of the above listed ideas as it could instead skew the balance of the game in favor of the Imperial Guard.

    Issue Orders: A Senior or Heroic Senior Officer may issue orders before the battle begins but after all sides have deployed and reserves have been declared. Up to two enemy units or independent character, whether held in reserves or not, may be marked as high priority targets and will be worth an additional kill point if destroyed. Note that only two enemy units may be marked in this manner, even if the army contains a second Senior or Heroic Senior Officer.

    Additionally, each Junior, Senior, or Heroic Senior Officer may mark an additional enemy unit or independent character as being a high priority target. This enemy unit is worth an additional kill point if, and only if, it is killed by the Officer or any squad within his own platoon.

    Note that each enemy unit may only be marked as high priority once.

    ***

    If anything is unclear, please let me know so that I can try to better word it. Let me know what you think, hopefully you like these rules as I've spent quite a bit of time thinking them over, but still, criticism is always welcome! I am not a fan of introducing house rules to a game unless they address something that truly is a problem, as most house rules tend to instead cause new problems and imbalances within a game. I believe the Imperial Guard and the new Kill Point rules truly are a problem, and I tried to find a solution which will fix that problem without unbalancing the game.

    Last edited by BossGorestompa; December 18th, 2008 at 22:01.
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  3. #2
    AKM
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    I doubt that many people will disagree:
    I do, as a matter of fact: KP counter-balance the other 2 scenarii. It's true that for now, IG is at a severe disadvantage while some armies benefit ridiculously well from special rules (combat squads anyone?), most other armies must balance having enough units for caputring objectives with limiting KP they can give to an opponent. And now there is at least a reason to, say, take a squadron of trakks instead of 3 single ones, if they're your only fast attack choice.

    As for your rules:
    Chain of command is very interesting. A little confusing, but we could probably streamline it a bit. More importantly, the fluff for it could really go both ways. The enemy needs to wipe out a platoon to get all the pts, reflecting the fact that as long as there are still men standing, the platoon is a fighting unit. On the other hand, most military units are considered useless once they reach half strength. Here are some ideas for an overhaul, which would be quite extensive, but fits with the rumors about the new codex:
    - a platoon is purchased as one unit, with a base cost (say 150 pts for command squad + 2 squads). The player can then spend extra pts (say, 30 pts), per extra squad (that could include "attachments such as heavy weapon squads or sentinels).
    - the original platoon is worth 2 KP total, earned when the officer is killed. Any extra squad is worth individual KP
    - each unit from the platoon can capture objectives normally.
    - if more than 50% of the units from the platoon have been wiped out, then the entire platoon must test for Ld. If it fails, the entire platoon withdraws from the battle

    It's rough and has not been playtested (oh, and is definitely inspired by Flames of War), but could be interesting.

    Issue orders: great rule! Simple, fun, useful, not overpowered. 2 Thumbs up!
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  4. #3
    LO Zealot BossGorestompa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKM View Post
    I do, as a matter of fact: KP counter-balance the other 2 scenarii. It's true that for now, IG is at a severe disadvantage while some armies benefit ridiculously well from special rules (combat squads anyone?), most other armies must balance having enough units for caputring objectives with limiting KP they can give to an opponent. And now there is at least a reason to, say, take a squadron of trakks instead of 3 single ones, if they're your only fast attack choice.
    I do see your point to an extent, but also bare in mind that these rules are not intended for tourny play - just friendly games, and if a group really likes them - then for friendly touries.

    I do agree that the first set of rules could go for some clearing up, and you've given me a brilliant idea.

    How does this sound?

    Command Squads: Command squads will still offer two Kill Points - one for the Officer, and one for his staff; however, they will gain the following special rules:

    Chain of Command: Command, Infantry, and Heavy Weapons platoons must maintain 6" coherency with their command squad. So long as a platoon's command squad is alive, its infantry and support squads do not award kill points for being slain. If a command squad is slain, each squad within it's platoon that is not lead by an independent character, specifically Commissars, Junior, Senior, or Heroic Senior Officers, must immediately take a leadership test. If failed, that squad will immediately fall back. Note that if the command squad is slain, each remaining squad is worth a kill point as normal. Sentinel Support Squadrons are an exception to this rule, and will act independent of its command squad and are worth a single kill point as normal.

    Detachments: Any Command, Infantry, or Heavy Weapons platoon may form a detachment before deployment. Each platoon may form a single detachment which must consist of at least two squads, but cannot include the command squad, nor can it contain more than half of the squads in the platoon. All squads in the detachment must maintain 6" coherency with one another but do not need to maintain 6" coherency with the command squad. The detachment suffers no effect if it's command squad is slain and is worth a single kill point.

    Issue Orders: A Senior or Heroic Senior Officer may issue orders before the battle begins but after all sides have deployed and reserves have been declared. Up to two enemy units or independent characters, whether held in reserves or not, may be marked as high priority targets and will be worth an additional kill point if destroyed. Note that only two enemy units may be marked in this manner, even if the army contains a second Senior or Heroic Senior Officer.

    Wargear
    Master Vox: A command squad with a Master Vox can nominate one other squad with a Vox Caster. That squad is not worth a kill point if slain.

    Regimental Standard: Any squad within 6" of a Regimental Standard will benefit from it's command squad's Chain of Command rule, even if the squad wasn't a part of the command squad's platoon.
    Last edited by BossGorestompa; December 19th, 2008 at 01:03.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member omegoku's Avatar
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    Interesting, but could be a bit difficult to keep track of during a game. Was that squad within 6" when it was killed?

    Also if i lose all my platoon, but the JO dies last, is it worth 2 KP, 3 KP, 4 KP or 2 for cmd squad, 5 for units = 7 KP?
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  6. #5
    AKM
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    I like it a lot like this :-)
    Probalby would need to be written to cover all situations, like omegoku points out, but that can come after some playtesting.
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    LO Zealot BossGorestompa's Avatar
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    As is written, the only thing you have to measure is 6" coherency. Although it does not exactly specify what happens if a squad breaks coherency, I certainly don't intend for the whole platoon to break!!

    Likewise, it is written to imply that if a squad is slain while the command squad is alive, it is not worth a kill point. If a squad is slain after it's command squad has been slain, it is worth a kill point.

    I figured I can only write so much in a single rule without bogging it down with too much verbiage, so I'd try my best to imply as much as is intended, then in true GW fashion release an errata once readers are nice and confused
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  8. #7
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
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    The problem with the suggested KP changes so far is that they take a nice, simple rule and replace it with something that requires taking notes during the battle, measuring distances, etc. So how about something like the following instead?:

    Final Score = killpoints_taken_from_enemy + your_killpoints_remaining

    So for example, an 18 KP guard army takes on a 10 KP marine force. The marine player kills 12 KP of guard and has 2 KP of his own surviving. His result is 12 + 2 = 14.

    The guard player kills 8 KP of the marines and 6 KP of his own troops survive. His result is 8 + 6 = 14.

    The game which before would have been nearly impossible for the guard player to win has suddenly become a draw. And the game dynamics would now encourage the players to not only go out and kill the enemy, but to preserve their own troops as well.

  9. #8
    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgoreham View Post
    The problem with the suggested KP changes so far is that they take a nice, simple rule and replace it with something that requires taking notes during the battle, measuring distances, etc. So how about something like the following instead?:

    Final Score = killpoints_taken_from_enemy + your_killpoints_remaining

    So for example, an 18 KP guard army takes on a 10 KP marine force. The marine player kills 12 KP of guard and has 2 KP of his own surviving. His result is 12 + 2 = 14.

    The guard player kills 8 KP of the marines and 6 KP of his own troops survive. His result is 8 + 6 = 14.

    The game which before would have been nearly impossible for the guard player to win has suddenly become a draw. And the game dynamics would now encourage the players to not only go out and kill the enemy, but to preserve their own troops as well.
    This must be the best solution to the guard kill point situation I have yet heard. Simple, yet it makes sence and ensures that each army has the same number of objectives, X for killing the enemy and X for keeping their own troops alive.

    Rep for that.
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  10. #9
    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Yes, that is a GREAT idea kgoreham. Thanks for sharing!

  11. #10
    LO Zealot SandWyrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin vanrooyen View Post
    This must be the best solution to the guard kill point situation I have yet heard. Simple, yet it makes sence and ensures that each army has the same number of objectives, X for killing the enemy and X for keeping their own troops alive.

    Rep for that.
    Thanks! I think the idea may need some playtesting though. I'm imagining some abusive guard player maxing out his force at something like 24 KP and then going to ground with camo-cloaks for the entire game. Though that would probably still be less broken than the current system.

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