Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
To make a campaign a bit more realstic I've toyed with the idea of introducing permanent casualties to each force as units die but I'm unsure how to make it fair.
My ideas so far include:
Each army would start with a 'draught' of 1000 points more than their starting force. So each army would be 2000 points a side basic with 1000 points unused.
Each army list would have to be drawn up in advance and could not be altered from the start of the campaign. The only alterations that could be made would be substituting a dead unit for a draught unit with relative points values all considered.
This would mean that the extra 1000 points wouldn't necessarily have to be new models, they could just be resued from your existing collection. Or if you do have an extra 1000 points of models then you can use them if you want.
But I don't know how to make a fair way for each army to suffer its casualties.
I was thinking that each model may become a casualty on the roll of 4+ (S=T). Those who may become a casualty then make an armour save. If that save is failed then the model dies, or if they are an IC then they lose a wound instead (down to 1). Vehicles are considered repaired.
My reasoning for this is that a Space Marine (3+) would have an equal chance of being wounded than a guardsman but a better chance of survival than a guardsman (5+) but it falls down a bit when comparing it to Orks, necrons, nids who don't really feel any pain.
Then i considered making it just the models who are killed by double toughness weapons, power weapons or force weapons. They are automatically dead, but doe it make Banshees, Zilla lists, devastators all a bit too powerful?
Too many models die each game for it be - 'he died, so he's dead'. the 2000 points would quickly become 1000, then 500, then nothing within two or three games.
So I'm after ideas and opinions from anyone. Something to make the campaign a bit more realstic where you have a limited number of men in your control and each one matters when he dies, it should add another element of tactical control as no units become completely expendable.
I can't say I've seen it all but I live for the things that keep me hollow.
I have done this before many times. In the past what I have found to work most effectivley was a master list. Essentially each player has 10,000 points (or whatever) no battle can be over 2000 points. When a unit gets below half strength but isn't wiped out they revive at half strength. If a unit has casualties but not half strength then they return at full strength. Characters who take wounds but don't die are filled, characters who die roll on a table
1-5 Lose a wound permantly
6 Character dies from wounds duffered during battle
If a Character is insta killed then he is gone tottally. When I ran campaigns like this is was nice cause at first the lists were competitive and people played to win. Later peoples lists were a hodge-podge of 'whats left,' and they fought a war of attrition, trying to 'snipe,' opponents tough units, Many a lascannon was targeted at a single character.
Eventually we added a small rule that you always have a generic HQ of your choice with no gear or psychic powers. So if your Avatar dies outright you can still bring an autarch with just his starting wargear.
Please ask if you have any questions... god knows I did.
Veni Vidi Vici
"The plan is to win, if we don't win its cause you guys didn't follow the plan!"
Eldar: 25,000 pts
Me and my friends did a campaign a while back, a lot more complicated than yours though. We had multiple armies that were represented by tokens on a map.
We played if the unit is completely wiped out in game, they're wiped out from the army. But if they're only taken down to a few men (even just 1) and survive or fall back off the table then they get brought back up to full strength.
The reasoning behind this is that when the army suffers casualties not all of them are dead, some are just wounded so in a later battle they might fight again. Also, if one unit gets wiped out and another just suffers casualties, again the wiped units might actually have a survivor or two but the unit is at such low strength they just combine them with another unit or alternatively they just recruit more men/bugs/aliens.
However we also had race specific rules in the campaign. Like the Tau could choose to withdraw instead of fighting and such. Armies like eldar and space marines have the "small in number" rule where if they're squad is taken to below half strength they're only replenished to half strength since they don't have the reserves that other armies do. The new starting number is considered the full strength unit as far as victory points went, but the small in number rule only takes place once (so if a 10 man squad gets reduced to 3 men, it gets replenished to 5. but if in another battle it gets reduced to 2 men, it still goes back up to 5 instead of 3)
We had scouts and guardians be an exception to the small in number but every other unit has this rule.
There's alot of room for improvement/streamlining but it worked out reasonably well for us.
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
I'm involved in a campaign right now where 4 of our 5 players were investigating a planet that yielded some sort of interest or benefit to the army. The armies involved are Tau (me), Chaos-Nurgle, Chaos-Undivided, and a Custom SM chapter each at 3000pts.
When a model dies it dies, when a unit is below half strength they will rally after the battle (if they are still on the table) and begin play as they were (worst case) or merged with another unit not exceeding maximum cap. It makes sense in our game because each army landed and began their investigation only to have their orbiting support demolished or chased away by the awakening of the Necron Tombs. We're fighting necrons (my wife’s army) set on uber meat-grinder with no list cap. It’s technically a free-for-all but we've all got a mutual goal. We're trying to keep the tomb from activating at full power (caping strategic points for a final out come). So we're fighting a suicide battle with some interesting rules, we'll fight until the last man is standing (or close enough). Necrons last game started in reserve turn 1 and then deep strike was enabled for the whole army turn 2. Was painful. Currently, chaos undivided has lost most of its points, the rest of us have held off well..
A bit unfluffy, but not so much.. I've fired ord weps into their combats.. so it works. (all due to scatter). And our SM friend has charged chaos at first sight on the battlefield (if it has been closer than the necrons).. so we're keeping it as fluffy as possible, but still having fun.
The "its dead, its gone" thing can work, but house rules will play a HUGE part especially with unit size and restrictions. And casualties usually only work well if the game limits or restricts reinforcements completely.
I personally suggest the IDIG method, but obviously play strategic points at 4-5 turns max. (skirmishes) as a full on combat would make the campaign brutally short. If you want full bloodshed, and massive combat, go with the reserve list and as it depletes you'll see the change in play style.. I just like the look on opponents/teammates faces when you 'accidentally' nuke their HQ.
Last edited by M457ERSP00K; February 18th, 2009 at 20:02.
"Quisque suos patimur Manes" - Virgil
Farsight 2100pts (6/1/-)
Kroot Merc 1200pts (1/3/1)
Not all casualties in a battle a truly killed, they may be merely injured and unable to fight effectively. To represent this, a test for all casualties should be made following a battle to see if they were indeed killed outright.
Roll a D6 for each individual model slain with the following modifiers:
-1 If Player lost the battle (Less chance of picking over the battlefield for survivors).
-1 If Unit had Fallen Back off the table edge (Leaving fallen comrades behind)
-1 If Unit completely wiped out (No one able to tend to the wounded)
-1 If lost in Assault Phase (more chance of being killed in close combat)
+1 If Player was victorious (better chance to look for survivors)
If the score is 4+ then, thanks to the medical advances of the 41st millennium, the model will been recover and will be fully fit to fight again another day (i.e. the next round).
In our club map campaigns, we play with full brigades (nine Combat companies, 2000pts each, that are represented by tokens on the campaign map). These companies have a 1000pt fixed list witht the ability to draw an extra 500pts from thier reserve list. Once the reserves begin to be depeleted, a player must spend strategic Resource Points to buy them back. If they players can afford them, then that's thier problem (we're a pretty hard-nosed bunch who don't play fair if we can get away with it... what can I say, we like the "real-world feel" of it!).
Kudos to that game style Grey, I like the idea very much.. Seems i may be implementing it into future campaigns.
"Quisque suos patimur Manes" - Virgil
Farsight 2100pts (6/1/-)
Kroot Merc 1200pts (1/3/1)
Hey, thanks. gimme a few days to figure out this Tactical Phase problem that I'm having and I'll offer up my full campaign outline.
Well, in a campaign that a mate is running (or will be if it ever starts) its been kept simple.
Take a toughness test for every model put out of action. If failed then the model dies. One re-roll for each medicy related thing in the army.
If you dont want the campaign to end up pitifully small pointswise by the final battle maybe some sort of recruitment/breeding/summoning/whateverthefrig system might be in order?
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940
When we played a campaign it worked out like this.
All models are returned to 'life' on a 5+
Orks, Marines (Chaos or otherwise) and Ogryns are returned on a 4+
Monstrous creatures and Characters were returned to life on a 3+
Wounded characters/models were returned to full health.
The following modifiers counted
+1 if the army had a medic (including Fabius Bile),
+1 if the model fled the field rather than actually being 'killed' (including voluntarily moving off the board edge).
+1 if they died due to suffering a Deep Strike mishap.
+1 if the model was a special character.
+1 if the model 'Phased Out' (but not models which hadn't taken or had failed WBB rolls)
Rolls of one are not necessarily auto fails (i.e Abbaddon suffers a Teleporter mishap. Character 3+ Deep strike mishap, Special character = 1+ return).
Chaos Deamons did not count as destroyed for these purposes if they were not summoned.
However Daemons did have different rules to reflect the fact it takes vast quantities of psychic energy and eestruction to keep them in the material universe.
Daemons killed in the game could only be returned on the roll of a 6+ for lesser Deamons and '7+' for Greater Daemons with the following modifer.
+1 For every Chaos sorcerer which survived the battle.
+1 If you won the game.
+1 If the enemy army included a Psyker (only ever +1)
-1 if the enemy included Grey Knights
If a vehicle is damaged or destroyed the following rules apply
Destroyed Vehicles return to the army on a '7+'
Wrecked Vehicles 6+
Damaged vehicles are repaired on a 5+ roll for every part damaged on the vehicle but ignore stunned/shaken results.
If a vehicle is Wrecked or Destroyed and fails this roll then it is struck off from the roster. Damaged vehicles may either be put into the 'Mech Bay' or fielded. Damaged vehicles obviously start the game in their state of disrepair.
(note a vehicle may be Damaged and Wrecked so will have to roll a 6+ to survive followed by one or more 5+ rolls to repair the individual damage)
+1 For every Techmarine, Mekboy or Enginseer in the army.
+1 If you won the battle
+1 If you are Imperial Guard (Imperial GuArd rely on the tanks more, this rule represents complete replacements in the form of reinforcements and also additional efforts to reclaim vehicles)
+1 if the vehicle is in the mechbay.
This rule generally meant Guard armies always had access to plenty of vehicles while Marine armies had access to plenty of troops.
It also meant that tactical retreats in the face of overwhelming aggression might be a sensible move.
"God is dead" Nietzsche- 1886
"Nietzsche is dead" God- 1900
Why are there scams? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q71FLDIMBc8
How about if you automatically replenish a unit for each campaign turn the army does not move on the map or become attacked? Or even better, you could provide special locations to capture (cities, factories, base camps) which would be the only places this could be done. Just food for thought.
--•-My 40K projects-•--