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  1. #1
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    Tell me about the Legions

    ok strange question, what all can you tell me about the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, and Alpha Legion? As a community project on Rogue-market we are creating a compilation mini-dex to the unloved Legions, but what can you tell me about them?

    I figure that the Alpha Legion will have a massive number of infiltrating troops, but how often do they use Daemons? Stuff like that.

    So can I get a list of attributes, units, special rules, anything you can think of that could aid me in creating mini-dexes for these Legions

    Here's the first version of the Night Lords mini-dex that we've come up with, rip it to shreds and tell me whats good and whats not
    --------------------------------------
    Special Rules:

    Savage Attacks
    The Night Lords attack is so brutal that it causes even the staunchest of combatants to falter at times. When they do the Night Lords sense their prey's weakness and deliver the final devastating blows.

    When a unit of Night Lords with Savage Attacks wins a round of close combat, the defender' leadership is decreased by 2 (after modifiers) for the purpose of checking morale for that turn . Furthermore if the Night Lords unit is engaged with multiple foes they may disengage at any time to make a sweeping advance to attempt to destroy a fleeing foe, however, if the Night Lords fail their Sweeping Advance throw then they remain in combat.

    Deadly Blades
    The Night Lords are experts at fear and terror, and what better way to inspire fear in your enemy's hearts then to cover your blades in poison so that even the slightest touch can kill an enemy soldier in the most painful way imaginable.

    All Night Lords units with Deadly Blades count normal CC weapons as Poisoned that wound on a 4+

    Army List:

    HQ

    Zso Sahaal the Talonmaster Cost:125

    Unit Type: Jump Infantry

    Number/squad: 1

    Wargear:
    -Power Armor
    -Jump Pack
    -Frag Grenades
    -Krak Grenades
    -Talonmaster's Lightning Claws*
    -Talonmaster's Bolter**

    Special Rules:
    -Fearless
    -Independant Character
    -5+ Invulnerable Save
    -Deep Strike
    -Night Vision
    -Fleet
    -Relentless

    *Zso Sahaal's Lightning Claws are integrated into the gauntlets of his hands and are retractable, allowing him to free use of his hands when not in close combat. They count as Two Lightning Claws in everyway, except that they allow the use of the Talonmaster's Bolter as well
    ** The Talonmaster's Bolter was a gift from the Night Haunter himself, thus it counts as a Master Crafted Bolter from the Space Marine Codex.


    Daemon Prince:

    Night Lords may not take Daemon Princes.

    Night Lords Master:

    A Night Lords Master functions as a Chaos Lord in all ways except for the following:

    -He may not take any Mark of Chaos
    -He may not have Terminator Armor
    -In addition to his current Special Rules the Night Lords Master has the following a swell:
    -Night Vision
    -Relentless

    Chaos Sorcerer:

    Nights May not take Chaos Sorcerers.

    Elites

    Night Lords Veterans:

    A Night Lords Veteran Squad functions as a Chosen Chaos Marine Squad in all ways except the following:

    -May only take Icon of Chaos Glory
    -In addition to current Special Rules the Night Lords Veteran Squad has the following as well:
    -Night Vision
    -Relentless
    -Savage Attacks
    -Deadly Blades
    -Fleet

    Chaos Terminators:

    Night Lords may not take Chaos Terminators.

    Possessed Chaos Space Marines:

    Night Lords may not take Possessed Chaos Space Marines

    Night Lords Dreadnought:

    Functions exactly the same as in the Chaos Space Marine Codex except for the following

    -In addition to the current Special Rules the Night Lords Dreadnought also has the following:
    -Fleet


    Troops

    Night Lords Marines:

    Functions exactly the same way as Chaos Space Marines with the following exceptions:

    -May only take Icon of Chaos Glory
    -In addition to current Special Rules, Night Lords Marines also have the following:
    -Night Vision
    -Fleet
    -Deadly Blades
    -Savage Attacks

    -Chaos Rhino function exactly the same as in the Chaos Space Marine Codex

    Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Thousand Sons:

    Night Lords may not take Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, or Thousand Sons.

    Fast Attack
    -Night Lords have one more Fast Attack slot then normal

    Night Lords Bikers

    Function exactly the same as Chaos Bikers in all ways except for the following:

    -May only take Icon of Chaos Glory
    -In addition to current Special Rules, Night Lords Bikers also have the following:
    -Night Vision
    -Savage Attacks
    -Deadly Blades

    Night Lords Raptors:

    Function exactly the same as Chaos Raptors in all ways except the following:

    -May only take Icon of Chaos Glory
    -In addition to the current Special Rules, Night Lords Raptors also have the following:
    -Night Vision
    -Relentless
    -Deadly Blades
    -Savage Attacks
    -Fleet

    Heavy Support
    -Night Lords have one less Heavy Support slot then normal

    Night Lords Havocs:

    Function exactly the same as Chaos Havocs in all ways except for the following:

    -May only take Icon of Chaos Glory
    -In addition to current Special Rules, Night Lords Havocs also have the following:
    -Night Vision
    -Deadly Blades
    -Savage Attacks

    Obliterator Cult:

    Night Lords may not take Oblitertors

    Night Lords Predator, Vindicator, Land Raider:

    Function exactly the same as in the Chaos Space Marines Codex

    Defiler:

    Night Lords may not take a Defiler

    Summoned Daemons

    Chaos Furies:

    Function the same as in the Chaos Daemons codex

    Greater/Lesser Daemons:

    Night Lords may not summon Greater/Lesser Daemons

    Last edited by IonRaptor; February 8th, 2009 at 02:35.

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  3. #2
    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    I read Lord of the Night

    SPOILER ALERT READ AT OWN RISK

    In the end there was a daemon prince of the night lords legion, Sahall battled him for the corona nox. So they should have the optio to take daemon princes. Sahall was a complete killing machine so a 125 point cost wouldn't justify him, he was the Night Hauter's successor and so should be at least 200 points, bef him up a bit, give his bolter rending and assault 2 range 18.
    In the dark room with the elevator when the arbites cornered him he took ungodly amounts of fire and so should have a 2+ save.
    Maybe include some rules for his clan he created from the gang(brain fart forgot their name) Or mita ashyn.

    Just some of my sugestions.
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    Your list is kinda...not good. Firstly, giving all the marines relentless is, well, silly. Not even GW's love child army can do that. You do not get to fire weapons as if stationary simply because you're badass, you need something like an attack bike, terminator, or a monstrous creature.

    Fleet is also silly. Sure, it's lost most of its usefulness, but look at the races that have fleet across the board: tyranids and eldar (of both flavors)*. They're lithe and agile. Mechanically, they all have human toughness and are relatively weak. Fleeting MEQs is not a good idea.

    Savage Attack is also a little iffy. Consider adding a drawback such as if they use it to disengage, they suffer d6 wounds, as if they were fearless.

    Giving troops poisoned blades (on top of fleet and savage attack, and assuming they still come standard with all the other CSM bonuses) is...odd. Consider making them two-handed so that an extra attack is not given when using them in combat.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

  5. #4
    Acting XO of Tanith 1st MadLarkin's Avatar
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    I dunno much about night lords but why so many units with relentless?

    and without an increase to points cost i think deadly blades is a bit powerful, even with all the things they lose. Either add 25pts to every unit's base cost (like min unit size +25 pts) or maybe make it so that their poisoned weapons that wound on a 5+ so that it wouldn't bee too powerful but still better than if they didn't have them.

    As for Iron Hands fluff I know a decent amount of their origins and such. They should have a weaker version of feel no pain to represent bionics. Perhaps on a 5+ or 6+ with the same limitations of feel no pain (i.e. ignored on no AP weapons and such). Possibly even have it so only sergeants and veterans get this as they'll have enough bionics to make a difference, or even have basic troops a 6+ and the vets and sgts a 5+ and then characters get a 4+

    They're very straight forward being stubborn and preferring full frontal assaults and so probably should not be able to outflank and should lose their combat tactics rule for the bionic rule.

    They shouldn't be able to use chaplains, instead combine the chaplain and the master of the forge.

    Maybe have Venerable Dreadnoughts able to be taken as HQ choice.

    They don't have chapter masters according to lexicanum, perhaps take out the entry entirely and give the captain the option to be a master of the fleet (only one allowed) which gives him the orbital bombardment.
    I dunno about Honor Guard, maybe leave them out entirely and instead have the option for a terminator command squad (as they do love those termie suits)

    And I don't know how the apothecary and the bionic rule should interact, maybe +1 to the roll, or a reroll. With +1 it would be the same 4+ but the captain in the unit would have 3+ fnp save which could be overpowered, or could be very sweet.

    Those are some of my suggestions.
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadLarkin View Post
    ...They shouldn't be able to use chaplains...

    They don't have chapter masters according to lexicanum,
    There are some very good reasons why the Iron Hands LEGION does not have Chaplains or Chapter Masters.

    I believe the OP is referencing to the traitor marines (specifically, Alpha Legion, Black Legion/Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, Thousand Sons, etc.) instead of the original 18 or so smurf legions, in which most of the fluff knowledge we have on them would not apply.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

  7. #6
    Member Carcearion's Avatar
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    A crack at it

    Hmmm… I dunno I think I’d have to agree with the general sentiment that what you have there is a bit much (especially the relentless thing that just doesn’t seem right), I think you need to take a less extreme approach, adding all kinds of special weapons and sheer combat bonuses isn’t the way to go, the idea isn’t to make some incredibly badass legion it to make ones that’s unique, id go with something more subtle (like the subtle changes you find for different chapters now and in legions in the last edition).

    Hers my crack at it:

    Penalties:
    -Night lords may not take chaos icons or have marks of chaos
    -Night lords may not take plague marines, thousand sons, or khorne bezerkers
    -Night lords may not take summoned daemons of any kind
    -Night lords may not take a sorcerer
    -Night lords may not take chaos spawn
    -Night lords receive only two heavy support choices
    -All units that are not vehicles (with the exception of walkers) must buy the Night Lords Regalia at 10 points, it functions as attaching an icon to a troop but must also be attached to units that only include a single unit (such as dreadnaughts or HQ units).

    Bonuses:
    Night Lords Regalia - All night lords units that are not vehicles (with the exception of walkers) incur a 1 moral penalty to enemy models with 12 inches of any model (none-stacking) and count as having delt one extra wound in melee combat for purposes of determining the victor.
    Night Lords Grand Master - HQ choice, (chaos lord who can be attached to a fast attack squad to take them as a troop choice and gives them the Hold The Line special rule, cant remove the lord from the squad just like a retinue). Costs an extra 10 points in addition to the Regalia cost.
    Dark Ones: Troop Choice, (21 points / model, Scout, +2 Cover Save [5+ cover save at all times], Fearless. Weapon Options: up to two of the following; plasma gun, melta-gun, flamer, twin-linked bolter. Regalia for free.)
    Terror Tactics – All night lords’ vehicles are equipped with a Dirge Casters for free.
    Dark Heritage - all night lords have the Night Vision special rule.
    Some Amazing Special Character - does the same thing as the Grand Master but is incredible some how and maybe grants Scout or Infiltrate to the troop he is in.

    These rules could make a Night Lords army that is unique with its own special rules and the ability to front an army that a normal chaos marine force simply couldn’t, there are certainly some draw backs but the sheer number of fast attack units you could field and the existent you could use them would be incredible (you could field an army of nothing but raptors and bikers), however to make up for there abilities they loose a lot of options and take a mildly inflated cost.
    Last edited by Carcearion; February 9th, 2009 at 03:55.
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  8. #7
    Acting XO of Tanith 1st MadLarkin's Avatar
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    haha sorry i missed that he said iron warriors and thought he said iron hands. whoops, my bad.
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    Hey guys, thanks for taking the time out to help us, I think we've got enough to go back to the drawing boards and do some serious tweaking.

    However I want to ask one more question: We're there any parts that were good in this test mini-dex?

  10. #9
    Member Carcearion's Avatar
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    just my take... but im opinionated

    well what you really need to understand is you cant add abilities for restricting units, you have to loose abilities to gain abilities and/or increase the point cost of the unit significantly (like with my "Dark Ones" I counted up the number of abilities a plague marine had and gave the unit a different set that seemed a bit weaker so I lowered the point cost). night-vision is an exception to this as its so situational, you could probablye throw it on the hole armie for just the unit restrictions and no one whould really care much.

    The whole -1 heavy support, +1 fast attack makes perfect sense of course.

    I think you should focus more around things like Scout, Infiltrate, Deep Strike, and above all else things to do with weakening enemy moral (remember incurring a moral check out of no where for another army is a 30 point psychic power!). Cross reference you're units for balance with other units in the codex, and if you do decide to make a your own special rule keep it small and simple.

    poison weapons would be a nice cheep weapon option for champions and lords and all that, but giving all of them poison weapons is comparable to giving the hole squad power weapons or something out there like that. Maybe lords could take poisoned power-claws for daemon weapon cost?

    in my opinion some extra fast attack is nice but id give them some way to capture points with some fast attacks units would really make the army play differently, I really suggest the hole HQ retune that gets Hold The Line (hold the line allows for point capturing!). this is based off a space marine hero who does the same thing.

    Giving them the Furies is a really good idea! summong a fast flying swarm is perfect.

    Maybe dig some equipment out of the dark eldar codex (they have allot of moral related stuff) and make it chaosy.
    Last edited by Carcearion; February 10th, 2009 at 03:19.
    Could you understand the beauty of the beast?

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