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Initiative is a premium points cost item in the Warhammer Fantasy stat line. And unlike its 40K counterpart, it does not work in your favour (generally) if you are charged. Additionally, many items, armies and special rules seem to negate the purpose of initiative, and there are not enough times that a unit has to take an initative test in the game.
One of these times is to avoid spell effects, look out sir rolls and others. I would propose expanding the use of initiative in combat as follows.
Ward save when charged:
At the start of a combat, a charged unit may attempt to take a D3 test: divide initiative by 2, rounding up, and then roll a D6 against this figure. If the D6 roll is less than the initative, the unit gains a 6+ ward save for that duration of that combat. If the unit has a ward save, use the better value.
"The warrior surveyed the battlefield, as devastating carnage was wrought amongst his compatriots. Lancers in blue-steel plate were pulled down, their pennants trampled beneath steel shod hooves and their mounts whinnying in terror as they fled. The enemy were behemoths mounted upon cruel, black destriers, each wreathed in the stench of corruption and the miasma of disease. Their leader, a vicious demon with red eyes glowing through his great helm looked straight at the warrior, and then pointed his flith encrusted lance towards the warrior's unit.
Old men and boys huddled behind shields. If they had been taught one thingm, the warrior reflected as he raced back to the realtive safety of the group, it was to receive a cavalry charge. Screaming commands and bellowing orders, the sergeants formed up the militia to a semblence of order, as the mounts of the enemy moved from a walk to a trot, with pus-green plates of barding bobbing up and down.
The warrior shouted at the men to hold firm, and lower their spears, and prayed to all the gods of this cruel world that they would hold....as the alternative was to be chopped down like sheaves of corn"
I'd disagree with you slightly there kithre.
a ward save is solid gold. a shield wall helps to stop stuff but a high strength essentially means that something just has a right hook that vapourises armour as it goes. S6 gives a -3 to armour. Thats essentially heavily padded armour and a sheild battered down so a strength 6+ model is excellent vs those heavily armoured crazies.
adding a 6+ ward save makes a lot of units godly. it means that Dryads are almost unstoppable. "oh no, we are being charged by a unit of magically armed men. thats fine, we can easily pass our initiative test and get a 6+ ward save."
How about one of these tests made successfully allows the model to actually make its attacks even if it is killed?
If anyone believes on telekinesis, raise my hand!!
Hmm that would be a better approach maybe.
However, I did note that it is an initiative test on HALF initiative, rounding up. So even Elves will generally be testing against 3s.
However, I agree that perhaps we can make it a "normal" initiative test, and this allows attacks from those combatants pulled down.....
Of course, it only applie sto rank and file units, NOT skirmishers, monsters or characters...
Agreed. I've just had a go at some number crunching though and i am getting worried at some of the combats.
one of the chargers lost a combat to a high initiative, multi attack models who wouldnt have a chance in hell of winning in normal game.
i'd propose that only those who would have been allowed to attack normally can attack,
half initiative for flank/rear charges and that only half the number of attacks, rounded up, can be made in this way.
If anyone believes on telekinesis, raise my hand!!
I think there should be no advantage at all for flank or rear charges, making them all the more devestating and desirable. Remember that armies often spent hours getting into position and countering the enemy to turn flanks and get the all-important rear charges....
But yeah, half initiative and allows 1 attack back (otherwise Chaos Warriors and Black Guard would be too good!!!)
I've toyed with initiative too. But most ideas just made the unit with high I WAY too powerful. Perhaps allowing high I to reroll one failed tohit/armour save per turn? Also, you should take into account the difference in the value between models: subtract the lower from higher, if the difference is greater than 2.......
I have used the following rule.
A rank and file unit may make an initiative test on any turn in which it is charged. This test is passed then the most forward models left in a rank may strike back as if they were the front rank. However they suffer a -1 to initiative for each full rank in front of them that is killed.
Example 1: a unit that is 5 wide and 4 deep is charged and suffers 7 dead, so if they have a 4 initiative then they would make an init test needing a 3 or less as they have a 4 but since they lost the entire front rank they suffer minus 1. If they pass then the 3 remaining models left in the second rank may strike back as if they were the front rank.
Example 2: a unit that is 5 wide and 5 deep is charged and suffers 11 dead, they have a 4 initiative then they would make an init test needing a 2 or less as they have a 4 but lost both their entire first and second rank so suffer minus 2. If they pass then the ramaining 4 models left in the third rank may strike back as if they were the front rank.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
That's a good idea!
If you want initiative to count more, why not go back to fighting in initiatve order with Initiative modifiers like in the 3rd ed WH rules?
Just a thought.
What, like charging adds +1 I, Lances and spears add some as well etc etc? That could work.
ASF = as current rules - no modifiers to base initiatve when ASF fights ASF.
Charging = +2 I
Spears = +1 I on turn enemy charges
Pikes = +2 I when enemy charges
Lances = +1 I when charging (additional to charging bonus)
GW = -2I except when charging
Halberds = +1 I against cavalry
is this the sort of thing that you were indicating?