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Nearly all armies have a defensive unit armed with halberds and shields, problem is that most of the times its not worth its points as hand weapon+shield=+2 save and 2h weapon= +2strenght. Halberd provides with +1 Strenght but as double handed weapon cant be combined with shield in close combat. This leaves defensive units with 5+ save and strenght of 4-5. In most cases its useless for their points.
Therefore i considered overall change for all halber+shield mixes. To put those units adequatly in the middle of the equation +2save------Halberd------+2 strenght maby it would be wortwile to allow use of shield in close combat. (without bonus for 1 hand weapon and shield). This would help to make halbers viable choice and put in on par with hard hitting and high armor save units.
That does sound pretty cool. Id be down for that with my warriors for sure.
Since you are on the topic of halberds I had an idea the other day for a new weapon. Not suer if they already have a name, any of you history guys or whatnot can probably name it, but have like a double ended halberd. Or some type of pole weapon that has a blade on both ends. Make it a 2H weapon and make it give +1 Str and +1 attack.
I think it would be neat. Probably make it the same point cost as a great weapon, maybe one more point. That seems like a good point range.
But ya I like your idea. I personally don't see a huge need for it imo though because its only +1 str compared to +2 str from a GW but it doesnt strike last. But chargeing and being charged can kill this initiative system if the combat only lasts one turn.
Others may feel that halberds need a buff like your idea, I just run WoC so 2 attacks at Str 5 while maintaining a 4+ armor save is pretty dirty.
Way to get +1A is included already and its from second weapon, in game terms +1A= loss of 2 points of extra armor (from shield) or loss od +2S (from 2h weapon), so weapon adding both S and A is above the benchmark. (shield and 1h weapon and 2h weapon are even as their buffs are cancelling out in save terms (2h weapon help to wound but strike last). My problem is that halberds are have smaller game power.
Chaos warrior with 1h weapon and shield has 2+ armor save in close combat and S4 for 16 pts
Chaos warrior with 2h weapon has 4+ armor save and S6 striking last for 17pts
Currently chaos warrior with halberd has 4+ armor save and S5 for 16 pts
In real game terms charging decides about winning a combat if both units are equal, but halbers are inferior to 2h weapons and shield+1h weapon is a combo that helps to survive a calvary charge.
Well I throw halberds on my warriors. Its a cheap way to make them able to break enemies on the charge. GW's work too but a lil more pricey. The way I do it is if I charge I pull out the halberd and if I get charged I hide under my shield and still hit at Str 4.
And my thing with the double ended halberd thingy that gives +1 Str and +1 attack is that it is a double ended weapon that if used by a skilled warrior can be used to give a flurry of attacks (hense the +1 attack) but its still a larger weapon that gains momentum so it also grants +1 Str.
The only example I can think of is the doublelightsaber thing Darth Maul had. But like a bladed version of that.
Maybe if the shields swould be bucklers which do not give a bonus against shooting but aid in close combat. I cannot imagine wielding a halberd and a large shield. It's way to cumbersome.
Well, to be honest, in reality halberds were used as a rank weapon, so front line use it as spears and soldiers at the back used it as long axes.
1 more time weapon +1S +1A is above the scale, all melee weapons (besides halberds) effectively give same bonus and 1 A=2s or 2 save. So double edged weapon would be overpowered. (look eternal guard fighting style, although this makes them quite regular heavy infantry without haeavy armro, they are wood elves after all, so this fill is game mechanic need without breaking the style of an army.
Remember that you always have the option of using a HW OR Halberd right before the combat starts; that way you can still receive the extra save granted from using HW+Shield.
For example, if I was running a unit of mine with a base strength of 4 and equipped with HA, Shields, and Halberds:
Charging a unit with S3 T3 I could choose Halberds, trying to take out as many as possible initially, this is also best if you have initiative on the enemy. However, in this case it very well might be better to use the HW+Shield for the extra save and due to the fact that you are already wounding on 3's.
Now if I was charging T4 units, I would definitely use the halberds, the 3's to wound and -2 armor save could be invaluable.
If charged by S3 T3 I might choose HW+Shield for the 3+ save instead of 5+.
Taking shields with your halberd carrying units will give you versatility at the expense of an extra point per model (usually), not just a +1 bonus to your armor save against shooting. Just remember that whatever you pick when the battle begins is what you are stuck with until it is over.
Last edited by DeathRocketeer; March 21st, 2009 at 16:22.
DeathRocketeer you are right that its possible to use hw+shield while carrying halberd, but its not the case, as every model always carries a hand weapon, idea is that possibility of downgrading isnt a compensation. And with limited number of turns in battle if you decide to use hw+shield most likely u wil simply lose 20 points you paid for halberds. My proposition is to equalize the different weapon options, so in game mechanics those option will provide bonuses of equal value.
@Aves: I am a bit confused as to 'that's not the case.' Are you trying to say that not all units carry a HW? The BRB states that all units are always armed with a HW (or 'claws' that count as HW's). Concerning 'downgrading' to HW's, I would only consider it a downgrade if the unit isn't carrying shields. If they are, it's not really a downgrade as a different option, since you are giving up an offensive strength in exchange for a defensive one.
It's not the case because everyone have hw.
If model cost 17 points for shield and halberd and 16 for shield and hw, then in 6 turn battle when its gonna be in combat for 2-3, picking hw-shield makes u waste 1 point per model, as u pay more for cheaper option, even if going for extra save is more tacticaly viable, its better to get 1 more model for same points, than buy weapon that has limited use, because in most cases 2 points of save>1 bonus S. Even if u charge its more viable to use shield+hw in some cases especialy if u are using infantry to tie enemy. I am considering situation when cc is between units of similar power, it doesnt matter if u fight out of the league weaklings.
Last edited by Aves; March 21st, 2009 at 20:09.