Initative Per Round

[CKGeist]

Me and one of my buddies have been toying with the idea of rolling army initative ever round, because as it stands now. You get init, you have the upper hand.

Especially with Tau, Eldar (either), and Nids. And If your playing Eldar of any kind and you don't go first, most of the time, you might as well start packing away your models, especially DE, But if you go first, the other guy is done before the game has even started.

Anyone tried it, yet?

[Haggismaen]

I don't think it would be that effective. Some units such as Genestealers, Wyches, Harlequins rely on being able to strike first. Genestealers wouldn't be nearly as feared if they were to strike at the same time, or even after a unit of Marines.

Unless they had an Initiative value and you added the result of a D6 to it to find who would strike first. Some units such as Firewarriors, Necron Warriors and other low initiative troops might even be on just a plain D3.

But still I like the Initiative system the way it is now.

[mEGALOMANIAC]

Geist, do you mean each turn each player rolls to see who takes their turn first? Or something relating to the Initiative value in CC?

The first idea, that actually sounds interesting. Problem I see is that you'd occasionally get to take two turns in a row, and if you're a shooty army, that's a huge advantage. But let us know how it works.

[viper0219]

I personally have been considering this question for awhile. I think rolling every turn would change tactics alot. Some of the people I play rely on the set turn sequence for their tactics. Like a few bug players that run up to 12 and changes inches away and then charge right into close combat the next turn effectively eliminating my rapid fire. But what if they were to be the first play on Turn 3 when they are in position and I move up on my part of the turn, then I get lucky and get First part on Turn 4?

I think rolling for going first each turn would also eliminate the Roll-to-see-who-wins at the beginning of the game and I do not think it would need to have any of the core rules changed either. Since the only thing you are really changes is who goes first every turn.

[H0urg1ass]

Warning: This is a bit long, but it is a much better turn system than GW currently uses.

In my system each player takes turns moving ONE unit. If one player cannot/opts not move any units during his turn, then the other player is allowed to finish moving his remaining units. The person who is finished first, may start the next phase first.

A player cannot opt to not move one turn and then move during the next turn; if he opts to not move at any point, then his movement phase ends immediately and the other player finishes all remaining moves.

Then, each player takes turn shooting with one unit. Same as above: if one player cannot/opts not to shoot with a unit, then the other player finishes out all remaining shooting. Whoever finishes first may start the next phase first.

A player cannot opt to not shoot one turn and then shoot during the next turn; if he opts to not shoot at any point, then his shooting phase ends immediately and the other player finishes all remaining shooting.

Last, each player takes turns declaring charges with each unit. Same as above: if one player cannot/opts not to charge with a unit, then the other player finishes out all remaining charges.

A player cannot opt to not charge one turn and then charge during the next turn; if he opts to not charge a unit, at any point, then his charging phase ends immediately and the other player finishes all remaining charges.

CC is worked out after all possible charges have been declared by both sides. The person who finished declaring charges first, must pick which CC to work out first.

In the event that a player charges a unit and the other player "countercharges" into the same CC, then the player who charged FIRST goes first no matter how many units enter into the fray.

This is not the same as the countercharge ability. If a unit with the countercharge ability is charged, then combat is worked out simultaneously.

A unit charging into cover with frag grenades goes first. A unit charging into cover without frag grenades goes last, even though they charged.

Whoever has the highest strategy rating always starts the game going first, in the case of a tie, then roll a d6 and whoever is highest goes first. Drop Pod and Seeding Swarm armies always start the game first.

Me and my friends have not found a way in which the above rules change the content of any of the codices, however to be fair, we haven't tried these rules with each and every army yet.

[Hermann Morr]

I had a simple idea lately, and want to know what do you think about:

The player losing the initiative roll is the defender, his units start the game concealed and can't be fired at until spotted.
A defending unit is spotted:
1) when fires ( markerlights excluded )
2) when moves
3) when an attacking unit is at 6'' or less from it, 8'' if equipped with auspex or sensors.

This rule should limit the "first turn slaughters" and give a greater emphasys to the use of scout\incursor units.

If we want to add a little complication BOTH armies could deploy this way.

[Pandora]

That's a very interesting system Hourglass (But I won't lie, I got too intent on my brekky to do more then skim the lower parts.. Sorry.)
But it seems to me that it would penalize the smaller, more elite armies, when the entire Ork Horde just fields three gretchin mobs or such, to get to wear out your moving/ shooting/ charges first.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Maybe simultaneous turns, each player moving/shooting/etc in order determined by the unit's Initiative?

EDIT: Just noticed the Hourglass's post - exactly just like what he suggested. Good work, HG!

[CKGeist]

Yeah, I played ClanWar at GenCon they use a per unit initiative system which I really like. I think it could be modified for 40K. In clanWar each unit rolls and then adds their Init score to the Dice. with highest unit going first, then second highest and so on. Well sorta, it's fancier than that but for 40K it think that would work. Especially since DE and Eld tend to get thrashed and often SM units that have Spec Char's get wiped out before the Character can do anything. This kind of system would alleviate that.

I also like the idea of rolling you Strategy rating every round, because if a bug army gets a good roll and you don't (my life story) they just won. But if you roll Strat rating every round (What I meant in original post, sorry I was unclear) then over the long run the better Strat rating will win affect kick in.

Something else I like from Clan War was that you could choose if you wanted to go first or not if you won the roll. That is defintely cool, especailly if you are playing IRon Warriors or Salamnders or IG.

[H0urg1ass]

I would have to say that Clan Wars was a better system for many different reasons. Not the least of which is that you can win a Clan Wars game in several different ways. In fact, you could lose your entire army, but still win the game through honor in Clan Wars, which would definitely be a good system for the Imperial Guard....