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  1. #1
    Don't tread on me! BDJV's Avatar
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    Soul Reapers CSM Mini-Dex

    For the past 6 months my gaming group and I have been playtesting a "mini-dex" for my Soul Reapers Chaos Marines. Included at the bottom is one of my custom Special Characters, he has been playtested in at least 30 games and seems balanced to my gaming group.

    We have three more Special Characters written but they haven't been completely tested for balance. I will add them once they have been extensively tested.

    Here is the preliminary list of changes to the CSM codex for my Codex: Soul Reapers

    Looking at what the new 5th ed books are bringing us, it sure feels like GW have decided that the background/fluff is important to the army list entries now.

    This will be more of a supplement than an actual codex, as I have no desire to breach GW IP. So unless I make a new unit all unit stats and upgrades will be referenced from the Codex: CSM.

    I have waited until now to post this so we could have plenty of playtesting done, we have finally moved into the phase where I am now using my own army. In the early stages of playtesting I got to use my army in every 5th game, with me using my opponents army in the other 4.

    I appreciate all feedback, if you like or hate something we've done let me know. All I ask is to please keep it constructive.

    Thanks,
    Jim


    Soul Reapers Special Rules


    The models in a Soul Reaper army use a number of special rules that are common to more than one unit, as specified in the entries that follow. Given here are either the details of those rules or where to find them.

    Fear is for the weak: Soul Reapers have been in service the Chaos for ten millennia and know that the Dark Gods watch over them.

    Soul Reapers never have their leadership reduced by more than –2 Ld as the result of losing an assault. If the Unit loses the assault by more than -2, then immediately take any remaining modifiers as armor saves. They may also attempt to regroup even if the squad has been reduced less than half strength through casualties.

    Quote Originally Posted by =”Our goal”
    We were looking to create a unique rule with a flavor of its own, not some cheap cliché rip-off of ATSKNF or Fearless. We ultimately determined after looking at the Space Wolves and the Codex Space Marines, the decision was made not to add any points to the units.

    For example look at the Space Wolves Grey Hunter; they are 15pts each with the same weapons load out as the basic CSM, plus they have three Special rules, with a base Leadership of 8. So taking into account the basic CSM base leadership of 9, we have given the non-fearless models in the Chaos Marine army one special rule. We have no intention of messing with the points for special weapons, like GW did with the Wolves.

    Undivided We Stand: The Soul reapers detest the though of becoming single-minded minions of any particular Chaos God. Because of this the Soul Reapers do not use Cult marines dedicated to any particular God.

    A Soul Reapers army my not contain any units of Berzerkers, Rubric Marines, Noise Marines, or Plague Marines..


    Icons of Chaos: The Soul Reapers make no use of icons dedicated to individual Chaos Gods. They may only take the Icon of Chaos Glory as listed in the Codex Chaos Space Marine.


    Listed below are the Units from Codex Chaos Space Marines with the changes to their entry. Any units not listed below are used as listed in their entry in the Codex Chaos Space Marines.



    HQ

    All the Special Characters and the Daemon Prince entry in the Chaos Space Marine Codex are not available to a Soul Reapers army.

    Chaos Sorcerer: Gains Fear is for the Weak

    Elite

    Chaos Chosen Space Marines: Gain Fear is for the Weak

    Chaos Terminators: Gain Fear is for the Weak

    Possessed Chaos Space Marines: Roll for their Daemonkin abilities at the beginning of the game before deployment.

    Quote Originally Posted by =”Our goal”
    Possessed just make sense this way. I am also considering adding an upgrade for two models in the squad. Daemonic Fire: two models in the Possessed squad may upgraded to breathe unholy fire for 10 points. Daemonic fire has the same stats as a Heavy Flamer, found in the summary on page 104 of Codex CSM
    Troops

    Chaos Space Marines: Gain Fear is for the Weak

    Fast Attack

    Chaos Raptors: Gain Fear is for the Weak

    Chaos Bikes: Gain Fear is for the Weak, and the point value drops from 35 to 28 points per model.

    Quote Originally Posted by ”Our goal”
    This brings bikes more in line with other comparable units while still accounting for the extra CCW and increased leadership.
    Chaos Spawn: Gain the Feel no Pain special rule for no additional cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by ”Our goal”
    I have no idea what GW was thinking when they pointed the spawn entry. Feel no Pain makes these 40 point behemoths viable.
    Heavy Support

    Chaos Havocs: Gain Fear is for the Weak

    Soul Reaper Special Characters

    Titus the Butcher

    The Daemon Prince Titus the Butcher started out as the second in command of the World Eaters seventeenth Grand Company. He was and is still the armored fist of Lord Krüg, when there is something impossible to do Titus is unleashed to resolve the problem.

    Titus earned the title the Butcher and ascended to Princedom on the planet Lambosia on the far Eastern Fringe. It was during a campaign to reclaim one of the Salmora artifacts, that Titus was tasked with holding the Star Phantom Space Marines back while the Sorcerer Xusia preformed the rituals to locate the artifact. Titus lead an elite unit of Reavers from Lord Krügs handpicked Terminator bodyguard into a mountain pass to bock the path of the Star Phantoms. During the fight the Reavers were whipped out and Titus was left surrounded by the lackeys of the Emperor. He had already been mortally wounded, but refused to succumb to his wounds and fail Lord Krüg. Titus grabbed a second power sword from one of his fallen comrades and proceeded to charge headlong into the remaining Star Phantoms. When the dust settled the Star Phantoms were either dead or routing from the field, Titus collapsed knowing that his task was complete.

    As he lay there dying he heard the whispers of the Dark Gods. They were pleased with his dedication and the carnage he had done to his foes. They offered him untold power and a chance to fight again exacting his revenge on the Imperium for the greater glory of Chaos. He accepted the offer and rose up as a mighty Daemon Prince of Chaos.

    Since his ascension Titus is always found leading his troops from the front, rushing forward headlong into the enemy, he has been known to outpace the warbands transports and tanks. Unlike most Daemon Princes Titus has not been gifted with wings or psychic powers, instead he uses his powerful legs to rush across the battlefield with insane speed. The fusing of his flesh with his armor and his favor with the Dark Gods has made him extremely hard to kill, he is capable of shrugging off wound that would banish other Daemon Princes back to the warp.

    Titus the Butcher
    Daemon Prince: 200 points

    War Gear:
    Personal Icon
    The Butchers Blade

    Special Rules:
    Fearless
    Eternal Warrior
    5+ invulnerable save
    Feel no Pain
    Fleet

    The Butchers Blade is the massive sword carried by the Daemon Prince Titus. His brutality is know and feared throughout the Eastern Fringe. Titus can usually be found standing atop a pile of corpses in the middle of the enemy lines. He is very good at cutting large groups of his foes down with one mighty swing of the Butchers Blade.

    To represent this in the game Titus may give up his normal attacks to make single strength 5 attack against all enemy non-vehicle models in base contact. This is an all or nothing attack with a single die roll to hit; if there are multiple WS’s involved the roll to hit is against the highest WS. If successful roll to wound; with the wounds allocated among those models in base contact with Titus.

    Last edited by BDJV; November 19th, 2009 at 20:08.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    The special character seems fine. Fleet rather than flight is a nice touch and goes some way towards toning down his abilities. FNP on an eternal warrior is powerful but compare it to MON or MOT which he doesn't have and it is ok considdering his point cost.

    The butcher rule is good but be aware that a squad of 10 marines could be engaged with him and only 4 of them could be toutching the base while the others are still engaged. If this is ok with you then fine.

    The Fear is for the weak rule is a little more powerful than the standard CSM rules and you give it away for free with no corresponding disadvantages. I sugggest +1 point per model and +5 for characters. By the way the characters are fearless so how does this rule effect them? Also does the IoCG reroll occur before taking fearless wounds or after?

    "Undevided we stand" I would replace with "no cult troops at all" either you are undevided or you aren't and you need some disadvantages in the list. If normal squaddies cannot carry an IoK then where do the berserkers fit in?

    I know chaos bikes are over pointed in the CSM codex and that spawn are a huge waste of points but really you should stick with the codex rules for them. Always better to overpoint something in a fan codex so as not to unbalance the game. An opponent is doing you a favour allowing you to use this list so best not take advantage. Where would we be if every player could sift through their codex and repoint or give new abilities to any unit he didn't like then proclaim it a fan codex?

    Overall a good stabb. Check out our thread on the Chaos Legion codexes.

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...s-codexes.html (Legion Chaos Codexes)
    Last edited by Mad Cat; November 16th, 2009 at 16:03.
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  4. #3
    Don't tread on me! BDJV's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback. I'll take all the feedback to the group and see what they think. We will consider anything proposed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    The special character seems fine. Fleet rather than flight is a nice touch and goes some way towards toning down his abilities. FNP on an eternal warrior is powerful but compare it to MON or MOT which he doesn't have and it is ok considdering his point cost.
    Thanks, I’ve gotten so bored of seeing winged princes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    The butcher rule is good but be aware that a squad of 10 marines could be engaged with him and only 4 of them could be toutching the base while the others are still engaged. If this is ok with you then fine.
    If that were the case he would just use his normal attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    The Fear is for the weak rule is a little more powerful than the standard CSM rules and you give it away for free with no corresponding disadvantages. I sugggest +1 point per model and +5 for characters.
    The standard non fearless Chaos units in the codex are already over-pointed when compared to the Codex: SM and SW. Who both come standard with 3 special rules that cannot be lost during a game. Sure Icons are a buff, but they must be paid for and they can be lost in game.

    I posted are thinking behind this decision above but I’ll repeat it here.

    We ultimately determined after looking at the Space Wolves and the Codex Space Marines not to add any points to the units.

    For example look at the Space Wolves Grey Hunter; they are 15pts each with the same weapons load out as the basic CSM, plus they have three Special rules, with a base Leadership of 8. So taking into account the basic CSM base leadership of 9, we have given the non-fearless models in the Chaos Marine army one special rule. We have no intention of messing with the points for special weapons, like GW did with the Wolves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    By the way the characters are fearless so how does this rule effect them? Also does the IoCG reroll occur before taking fearless wounds or after?
    Well if the IC is joined to the squad he is subject to the rule. It doesn’t matter when the re-roll happens because the saves must be made.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    "Undevided we stand" I would replace with "no cult troops at all" either you are undevided or you aren't and you need some disadvantages in the list. If normal squaddies cannot carry an IoK then where do the berserkers fit in?
    We left them in tied to the HQ’s because while the Warband detests the thought of being a single-minded minion to any specific deity, they understand the potential use of the specialized skills of the cult units.

    Look at it like this, the cults are a specialized tool in the Warbands toolbox. Why bring a hammer to cut down a tree if you’ve got access to a Chainsaw?

    The disadvantage is that to even get one cult unit the army must have already purchased two basic Chaos Marine squads and an HQ, and to access a 2nd cult squad must purchase a 2nd HQ. With that said we have been thinking of limiting it to one Cult unit, as they are extremely rare in the Warband.

    I’ve got some great fluff on this that needs finishing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    I know chaos bikes are over pointed in the CSM codex and that spawn are a huge waste of points but really you should stick with the codex rules for them. Always better to overpoint something in a fan codex so as not to unbalance the game. An opponent is doing you a favour allowing you to use this list so best not take advantage. Where would we be if every player could sift through their codex and repoint or give new abilities to any unit he didn't like then proclaim it a fan codex?
    I do understand where you are coming from. Bikes as you pointed out are way over-pointed, and the Spawn has awesome models, but crap rules. So why would you not address the fact if you are going through all the effort to playtest and write a derivative codex?
    Luckily, I’m not taking advantage of anyone, the list is being written and playtested by all 8 members of my gaming group. In fact other than the desire to make a couple of Special Characters the mini-dex was not my idea and it’s my flippin’ army.

    I don’t know where we’d be if everyone wrote their own codex, but I imagine there would be just as many well thought out and playtested lists as there were crappy ones.

    Overall I say “good for you” to anyone that busts out of the ‘Officialdom’ box and creatively uses their imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    Overall a good stabb. Check out our thread on the Chaos Legion codexes.

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...s-codexes.html (Legion Chaos Codexes)
    Thanks, I have looked at what you guys have done and it’s looking good.

    -Jim
    Last edited by BDJV; November 16th, 2009 at 22:08.

  5. #4
    Don't tread on me! BDJV's Avatar
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    248 (x4)

    I sat down with the guys last night after our games, we had a great chat and have decided to try dropping the Cult troops completely and attempt to add a couple unique units to the list.

    From our quick brainstorming we came up with two probable candidates.

    The is first not my idea but I like it; Siege Breaker assault marines. Initial thoughts for a starting point are non-fearless Khorne Berzerkers that must be mounted in a Rhino with a Siege Shield and extra armor.

    The second is a special Bike squad with an option to upgrade one to an Infernal Harvester bike. It’s a hellish nightmare of a bike covered in power blades combined with a sidecar containing a second marine wielding power scythe.

    So Mad Cat thanks for shaking things up. If we are going through all the effort why not create something truly unique.

    -Jim

  6. #5
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    I like the killer attack bike/sidecar idea. Something like this maybe...

    Stats
    WS5 BS4 S4 T4(5) W2 I4 A3 LD10 Sv3+.

    Wargear
    Equipped with a TL bolter and a power weapon.

    Unit type
    Bike.

    Special Rules
    Fear is for the weak.
    Furious charge. (Note this does not transfer to other models in the unit)
    Spiky death. When charging it gets +1D6 attacks instead of the usual +1. These additional attacks are not from the powerweapon but due to the spikes on the bike. They get the rending special rule.

    Points 80. One of these may be added to a chaos bike unit of at least 5 models.
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  7. #6
    Scourge Lord Krovin-Rezh's Avatar
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    Nice one guys. These are some good updates to the same old CSM stuff. I'm very interested in seeing the fluff for these guys and the new Seige Breaker unit's unique abilities. Fear is for the Weak is a nice balance between Stubborn, Fearless, and normal morale. I think not being able to take cult units is cost enough for this ability.

    With the fluff out there, it opens up more ideas for new units and abilities to replace your cult choices.

    --•-My 40K projects-•--

  8. #7
    Don't tread on me! BDJV's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.

    Mad Cat the guys and I really like those special rules, consider them used.

    Krovin-Rezh, I have a fluff thread here's the (Soul Reapers Chaos Space Marines Backgound)Linky it will need some retooling now that I am dropping the cult troops. Like the creation of the cult marines text will obviously be changed.

    I have started working out a unit profile for the special bike squad. When looking at the points values for this squad, I'd as you to keep in mind that we have lowered the base cost of a standard Chaos Biker to 28 pts.

    Added to the Fast Attack force org chart.

    Seeker bike squads are used as an advanced element for any Soul Reapers army. They scout ahead of the main force disrupting enemy movements and probing their lines for weak spots with lightning fast raids.

    The squad if often augmented by the addition of an Infernal Seeker bike. It’s a hellish nightmare of a bike covered in power blades combined with a sidecar containing a marine wielding power scythe.

    Seeker Bike Squad (Points 129 )
    Stats
    Seeker WS5 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A1 LD9 Sv3+
    Seeker Champion WS5 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A2 LD10 Sv3+

    Unit type
    Bike.

    Squad composition:
    1 Seeker Champ
    2 Seeker Bikes

    Wargear
    Bike with a TL bolter
    Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

    Special Rules
    Fear is for the weak.
    Scout

    Options (The points values for wargear upgrades can be found on Pg 99 in the Bikers entry in the codex CSM)
    May include up to 4 more Seeker bikes at 38 points per model

    The Seeker Champion may replace his close combat weapon with one of the following:
    Power weapon
    Power Fist

    Up to 2 Seekers may take one of the following:
    Plasma gun
    Melta gun
    Flamer

    One Seeker may be upgraded to carry an Icon of Chaos undivided.

    Add one Infernal Seeker Assault bike to the squad for 80 pts.

    Infernal Seeker Assault Bike
    Stats
    WS5 BS4 S4 T4(5) W2 I4 A3 LD9 Sv3+.

    Unit type
    Bike

    Wargear

    Bike with a TL Flamer
    Bolt pistol, power weapon

    Special Rules

    Fear is for the weak
    Scout
    Furious charge (Note this does not transfer to other models in the unit)
    Spiky death: When charging it gets +1D6 attacks instead of the usual +1. These additional attacks are not from the power weapon but due to the spikes on the bike.

    I am currently working on a mock up for the Infernal Seeker bike and will get pics up as soon as I have my camera back from the shop.
    Last edited by BDJV; November 19th, 2009 at 20:54.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    You have dropped the attack bike down to LD 9. Thats good as you don't want it having a better LD than the rest of the squad if the champion dies for some reason.

    You know my views on dropping the points for the bikers but adding scout as well as fear for the weak for no point cost is pushing it. Adding the attack bike to a PF + 4 normal bikers makes a killer combat unit and enabling them to get first turn charges with no prospect of being shot for zero points is really unballanced. You would never add infiltrate and fleet to berserkers for no cost and simply justify it with a little fluff. I would remove scout or charge them 5-10 points per model for it. I don't think they need it anyway to be effective, simply turboboost on turn one and take a turns worth of enemy shooting with your super 3+ cover saves. Next turn get stuck in to combat.

    Only Ravenguard get scouting bikes and this is the main reason for taking their army. They suffer for it in other ways - basicly a medeocre codex in most other areas. Space marine scout bikes can do it too but they are hardly a killer combat unit. Even shining spears, the best and most expensive combat bikes in the game, don't have scout.
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  10. #9
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    Even though i think Chaos are all Traitorous scum I'm liking the theme and the list so far.

    One thing that sits wrong with me is Rending for that Assault Bike. That bike can charge (basically ram) a vehicle and with rending can penetrate and kill pretty much every tank bar a Land Raider.

    If a bike rammed a vehicle it wouldn't end well.......for the bike. I think +D6 extra basic attacks is enough. You've already got 3 Attacks with a Power Weapon.

  11. #10
    Don't tread on me! BDJV's Avatar
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    I agree scouting bikes are a bad idea, what I meant to give them Outflank as a special rule not the Scout USR. How many points do you think outflank would cost? 5pts per bike?

    How about we make the standard bike 38 points, basically adding 5pts to the codex bikes PV.

    Mad Cat, I get that you don't think messing with points values is a good idea, while I do understand I don't agree. GW arbitrarily changes points values all the time, and nothing that we are looking to change points wise is arbitrary. It's an attempt at normalization, in points.

    Ever since GW abandoned an actual formula driven points system, it has become extremely hard to create unique homebrew stuff without looking at parity within your chosen armies medium, and then it's still a crap shoot. ( MEQ or GEQ )

    Lord Borak, your right about the Rending, I'll drop it as it is a little cliche anyway. I will keep the D6 non-PW attacks on the charge.

    Thanks again for the feedback.

    -Jim

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