Codex Word Bearers (opinions and ideas)

[cypher371]

Ok this is probably the wrong place to post it but i rather have it for the eyes of fellow heretics etc. I'm in th process of writing and working on ideas for a fallen angels codex and a word bearers one.

Here's what i have so far for the word bearers let me know what you guys think and any ideas on what i can consider to include as i write more etc?

mmm ok can't seem to attach... i'll just paste it:

Codex: Word Bearers

Special Rules:

Unholy Fervour
The Word Bearers have such zealous faith in the ruinous powers that only a foolish warlord would question their loyalty. Their belief is such to the point where they constantly push themselves beyond their limits in the name of Chaos Undivided. No matter what happens the Word Bearers know that they're faith will always be rewarded and will push against all odds in order to chant their dark litanies and corrupt planets. Gathering followers annd raising unholy dameonic chapels in dedicated to the Dark Gods.
All Word Bearers may always attempt to rally except when an enemy is witin 6". If the unit is joined by an Aspiring Acolyte, Acolyte or Dark Apostle then they may re-roll any failed morale or pinning tests as well as re-roll any attempts to regroup.

Dirge Casters:
All Word Bearers tanks are equipped with Dirge Casters (points cost already included)

HQ:

0-1 Daemon Prince:
135 Points

(See Codex Chaos Space Marines for stats and options - Note it may not select any Marks of Chaos)

Type: Monstrous Creature

Special Rules:

Embodiment of Chaos Undivided: In order to fully ascend to a daemon prince of chaos undivided a Word Bearer must truly understand the will of the dark gods. Not only are they great orators they are also true warriors of Chaos and as such true daemonic ascension in the ranks of the Word Bearers is a rare thing indeed for one must appease all the powers of chaos in equal measure for such a reward. To represent this a Word Bearer's Daemon Prince has a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
True Daemogogue: A Word Bearer who has reached daemonhood are among the most talented of orators. With a mere whisper he is able to twist the faith of a population and with a zealous cry he can augment the devotion of his followers with his sermons. A Word Bearers Daemon Prince and any allies within 6" are fearless and also gain Preferred Enemy until the end of the turn that they launch an assault. Any enemy units within 6" count their Leadership (including modifiers) as being one less than usual, note this does not count as a leadership modifier.

Eternal Warrior

0-1 Dark Apostle
130 points

WS 6 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 5 A 3 LD 10 SV 3+

Type: Infantry (Character)

Wargear: Bolt pistol, Power Armour, frag grenades and Krak grenades.

Accursed Crozius Arcanum: Originally the badge of office and weapon of the chaplains. The Dark Apostles long since defiled and corrupted their Crozius Arcanums when they fell to the powers of Chaos. Now the Accursed Crozius is the symbol of a Dark Apostle. An Accursed Crozius Arcanum is a Power Weapon and a Personal Icon.

Special Rules:
Independant Character
4+ Invulnerable Save

Daemogogue: The Dark Apostles are the Exalted Warlords of the Word Bearers. Mostly made up of the Legions former Chaplains, the Dark Apostles spur on their warriors with memorised passages from the Sermons of Lorgar. The Dark Apostle and all Word Bearers within 6" of him are Stubborn and when they launch an assault they also gain Preferred Enemy until the end of the player turn.

Unholy Fervour

Options:
May Swap Bolt pistol for a Plasma Pistol +15pts or a power fist +25pts
May take a Twin-Linked Bolter +5pts or a Combi-Weapon +10pts.
May take Melta bombs +5pts.
Daemon Weapon: +30pts

The Dark Apostle may imbue his Accursed Crozius Arcanum with Daemonic Blessings counting it as a Daemon Weapon (See Codex Chaos Space Marines) with one of the following abilities:

- Death Reaper: The Accursed Crozius grants its bearer the unnatural ability to leech off of the souls of his victims. For each unsaved wound caused by the Dark Apostle he immediately gains +1 wound on a roll of 4+ (to a max of 1
- Crux Diablos: The Accursed Crozius is imbued with unholy protective properties The Dark Apostle gains +1 to his invulnerable save.
- Warp Focus: The Dark Apostle uses his Accursed Crozius to channel the powers of the warp into his "prayers". The bearer may make cast doom bolt or wind of chaos in the shooting phase. The bearer doesn't count as a psyker despite being able to cast psychic powers, he may however still suffer from perils of the warp.

May be given Jump Pack/Wings +20pts
or a Bike +30pts
Or may Instead Swap bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades and power armour for Terminator armour and a Twin Linked Bolter +20pts or a combi-weapon +25pts

0-1 Summoned Avatar of Chaos Undivided
115 points

WS 8 BS 0 S 6 T 6 W 4 I 4 A 5 LD 10 SV 4+

Type: Monsterous Creature

Wargear: Close combat weapon

Special Rules:
Invulnerable: The Greater Daemon's save is Invulnerable
Fearless
Summoned Daemons: See Codex Chaos Space Marines (Summoned Greater Daemon)

Gifts of the Gods:
The Avatar of Chaos Undivided is best described as a Daemonic Manifestation of the Word Bearers' belief in the worship of Chaos as a whole. As such; when ritualistically summoned it is unknown what beast will answer their prayers as all the various powers of chaos rush into one entity for a limited time. They often take a vague form similar to that of the Greater Daemons of the Four Gods depending on the powers answering the summons.

To represent this the Avatar of Chaos Unidivided has randomly determined Special Rules. Roll on the following table when the daemon becomes available:
2D6:
1-2 No Advantages
3 Gains Warptime
4-5 Gains Wind of Chaos
6 Gains +1 Initiative
7 Gains + 1 toughness
8 Gains +1 Attack
9 Gains +1 to the Invulnerable save
10-12 Gains Wings

Note: The Avatar of Chaos Undivided does not take up a HQ slot, but is otherwise treated as a HQ

Elites:

0-1 Acolyte:
100pts
WS: 5 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 5 A 2 LD 10 SV 3+

Type: Infantry (character)

Wargear: bolt pistol, accursed crozius arcanum, power armour, frag and krak grenades

Special Rules:
Independant character
Unholy Fervour

Orator: The Acolyte is pitched with the task of leiutenant to the Dark Apostle, while at the same time hoping to one day take up the mantle himself. It is his duty to make sure the Apostle orders are carried out while at the same time having some limited command himself in order to ensure the Dark Apostle is able to better focus his prayers toward victory. The Acolyte and any unit he joins gain preferred enemy on a turn that they launch an assault (remaining until the end of that player turn).
5+ Invulnerable Save

Options:
May swap bolt pistol for a plasma pistol +15pts or a power fist +25pts
May take a twin-linked bolter +5pts or combi-weapon +10pts
May take melta bombs +5pts

Word Bearers Terminators:
32pts each

(See Codex Chaos Space Marines for stats and options - Note may not select any Icons of Chaos)

Unit Type: Infantry - Composed of 3-10 Models

Special Rules:
Unholy Fervour
The Anointed - Word Bearers Terminators are always counted as being led by an Aspiring Acolyte in terms of Unholy Fervour and each counts as being equipped with a personal icon

Dreadnought
(See Codex Chaos Space Marines)

Invokers
25pts each

Invoker WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 9 SV 3+
Master of Ceremonies WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 2 LD 10 SV 3+

Unit Type: Infantry - Composed of 5-10 Models

Wargear: bolt pistol, close combat weapon, power armour, frag and krak grenades, (a Master of Ceremonies also has a personl Icon)

Special Rules:
Unholy Fervour
5+ Invulnerable Save

Daemonic Invocation
The Invokers voluntarily call on the aid of daemonic powers while at the same time they try and control the daemons within for in the eyes of a Word Bearer a daemon is merely a tool to achieve ones goals. The Invokers must choose one of the following abilities and count as Daemons:

Serrated Claws - Rending close combat attacks
Daemonic Fire - Range 18 Strength 4 AP 5 Assault 2
Daemonic visage - Enemies in base contact are at -1LD
Extra Limbs - +1 Attack - +3 points each
Daemonic Essence - +1 Toughness - +5pts each
Wings - +10Pts each

Options:
up to two invokers may swap their bolt pistols for:
flamer +5 pts
melta +10 pts
plasma gun/plasma pistol +15pts

One Invoker May be Upgraded to a Master of Ceremonies +15pts

He may swap his close combat weapon for a power weapon +15pts or a power fist +25pts
And his bolt pistol for a plasma pistol +15pts
He may also take melta bombs +5pts

The Squad may select a chaos Rhino Dedicated Transport +40pts (see Codex Chaos space Marines)

Troops:

Dark Crusaders
80pts

Dark Crusader WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 9 SV 3+
Aspiring Acolyte WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 2 LD 10 SV 3+

Unit Type: Infantry - Composed of 5 Crusaders - May purchase up to 15 more at 15pts each

Wargear: Bolter, bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades, power armour, (Aspiring Acolyte has a personal Icon)

Special Rules:
Unholy Fervour

Options:

One Dark Crusader may swap his bolter for:
Flamer + 5 points
Melta + 10 points
Plasma Gun +15 points
OR his bolt pistol for a plasma pistol +15pts

A second dark crusader may also pick from above list if the squad numbers 10 or more models.

A Dark Crusader may be Upgraded to an Aspiring Acolyte +20pts

He may swap his close combat weapon for a power weapon +15pts or a power fist +25pts
He may swap his bolter for a twin-linked bolter +5 pts or a combi-weapon +10pts
He may also swap his bolt pistol for a plasma pistol +15 pts
He may take melta bombs +5 pts

The unit may select a Rhino dedicated transport +40pts

[Rabbit]

This thread belongs in the Rule's Development section.

*thread moved*

[ericismyname]

Crux diablos is too strong for 30 points.

[Stradius]

Not just the Crux Diablos. The Daemon Prince is gaining the benefits of the Mark of Tzeentch and a chaplain bubble and a leadership-reducing bubble (that's worded in such a way as to ignore Stubborn) and has a bonus to combat res, all for 5 points (over the MoT) and no real loss of options. While some units in the CSM book are overpriced, the Daemon Prince is not one of them.

The Dark Apostle similarly is a Chaos Lord with the Mark of Tzeentch, Power Weapon, Personal Icon - and this time, he's actually *less* than a Chaos Lord would be with equivalent wargear. While this is borderline acceptable, given that the Chaos Lord is probably overpriced, once you include the Stubborn/PE bubble.... not so much. The discount for the Terminator Armor, however, is actually reasonable.

[cypher371]

Made changes how does it look now?

[ericismyname]

I didn't think the gains were too far off. Look at marine chapter codices now. Units gain things for free. Example. Grey Knight dreadnaught has the aegis and psychic power and he's the same price. Blood angel tactical squads are the same price and gain that ability Where they roll a dice at beginning of game. Same with there assault marines. Just some of the abilitys are too much. The demon prince has too many gifts. I understand that an undivided prince must work harder and is therefore stronger. But I think its a little overboard. Same with the chaplain. The avatar is fun though. I like that. Also I get your army wide rules..except the 6++. I mean are you saying because they spread the word and are very faithful to chaos gods they are granted 6++?

[Stradius]

Grey Knights Dreadnoughts are 10pt more expensive than regular marine ones, and Blood Angels trade Combat Tactics for The Red Thirst so... poor example. I'm assuming Aspiring Acolytes are the Aspiring Champion equivalent, which means most squads will have them - which means that most squads will be re-rolling failed morale checks on their own. While reasonable given the Word Bearers, it is a very potent ability - one that needs to be counterbalanced by Aspiring Acolytes being more expensive than Aspiring Champions (I'd say at minimum of the cost of an Icon of Chaos Glory more, since they basically grant an improved version of it). It goes without saying that Unholy Fervor is also extremely potent, probably on the order of 2pt/model (or perhaps 1pt/model and and maybe 10-15pt increase in base unit cost)

As for the adjustments the Daemon Prince still seems a bit low, but I tend to err on the high side when it comes to judging prices, so it may be all right... at the very least, it can wait until playtesting (if this ever gets that far). The Dark Apostle I feel, given Unholy Fervor and inherent rerollable stubborn (now that I notice it) could stand to be 5pt higher at minimum.

[cypher371]

I didn't think the gains were too far off. Look at marine chapter codices now. Units gain things for free. Example. Grey Knight dreadnaught has the aegis and psychic power and he's the same price. Blood angel tactical squads are the same price and gain that ability Where they roll a dice at beginning of game. Same with there assault marines. Just some of the abilitys are too much. The demon prince has too many gifts. I understand that an undivided prince must work harder and is therefore stronger. But I think its a little overboard. Same with the chaplain. The avatar is fun though. I like that. Also I get your army wide rules..except the 6++. I mean are you saying because they spread the word and are very faithful to chaos gods they are granted 6++?

Why not the 6++ battle sisters are devout to the emperor and get a 6++? and what do u suggest with the daemon prince then should i just remove th counts as scorin an extra wound thing and perhaps knock like 5-10pts off? and what should i do with th apostle, perhaps make a roll of a d3 to decide what daeonic gifts his weapon can be imbued with? and cheers about the avatar i was very pleased with those ideas, notice the gods numbers correlating?

to stradius:
yeah i was pretty much thinking that for the basic squads, have them at 16pts per normal marine and 20pts for the aspiring acolyte but 85pts for the first 5 marines if tht makes sense. so half the AA's ability is paid for by getting th squad so almost enticing you to get th acolyte.

[ericismyname]

Grey Knights Dreadnoughts are 10pt more expensive than regular marine ones, and Blood Angels trade Combat Tactics for The Red Thirst so... poor example. I'm assuming Aspiring Acolytes are the Aspiring Champion equivalent, which means most squads will have them - which means that most squads will be re-rolling failed morale checks on their own. While reasonable given the Word Bearers, it is a very potent ability - one that needs to be counterbalanced by Aspiring Acolytes being more expensive than Aspiring Champions (I'd say at minimum of the cost of an Icon of Chaos Glory more, since they basically grant an improved version of it). It goes without saying that Unholy Fervor is also extremely potent, probably on the order of 2pt/model (or perhaps 1pt/model and and maybe 10-15pt increase in base unit cost)

As for the adjustments the Daemon Prince still seems a bit low, but I tend to err on the high side when it comes to judging prices, so it may be all right... at the very least, it can wait until playtesting (if this ever gets that far). The Dark Apostle I feel, given Unholy Fervor and inherent rerollable stubborn (now that I notice it) could stand to be 5pt higher at minimum.

I know its ten more points but ten points for aegis and psychic power? That's way good and worth more than ten points. As for exchanging combat tactics....how often does this rule even get used? I have never seen it used anywhere I've ever played.

Why not the 6++ battle sisters are devout to the emperor and get a 6++? and what do u suggest with the daemon prince then should i just remove th counts as scorin an extra wound thing and perhaps knock like 5-10pts off? and what should i do with th apostle, perhaps make a roll of a d3 to decide what daeonic gifts his weapon can be imbued with? and cheers about the avatar i was very pleased with those ideas, notice the gods numbers correlating?

to stradius:
yeah i was pretty much thinking that for the basic squads, have them at 16pts per normal marine and 20pts for the aspiring acolyte but 85pts for the first 5 marines if tht makes sense. so half the AA's ability is paid for by getting th squad so almost enticing you to get th acolyte.

I just think the 6++ is tzeentch themed and the rallying bonuses are much more in line with the fluff. As for the chaplain...I'd actually bring him back more towards regular chaplain stats. I might actually think his holy imperium gear doesn't Even function under chaos influence. I'd think up some kind power maul/ sceptre thing. Also I think it'd be cool to.include 2 levels of chaplains Like the blood angels and I think dark angels?

[cypher371]

The Chaos chaplains have always had accursed versions of the imperial crozius arcanums. ITs always been fluff-wise their former one defiled... obviously som eare bound to be re-made but i think more often than not an acolyte will kill his master of just take up his former masters mantle and crozius upon the apostles deaths. and yeah i was actually going to do two levels of them the Dark Apostles and the Acolytes, then of course the Aspiring Acolytes who are the Aspiring champion equivalents and each level has different strengths of the "chaplain" rules the Aspiring Acolytes one is cover in the army special rules whereas the elite equivalent will have a weaker version of the HQ equivalent if that makes sense. and yeah D.A. get two chaplain types and the stats of the Dark Apostle is basically the 3 wound chaplains just at +1 weapon skill and pumped up by chaos... which i think woul dmake sense considering their bound to have been around longer? i mostly based it off a mix from chaos lords and interrogator chaplains. i think i;ve just waffled in this message.... lol