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Well the idea of this project is to try and make a better and more thought out WoC list that allows the use of any mono god army which also allows for the mixing of Chaos gods.
Eye of the Gods
Characters: If a character kills a enemy character (including unit champions) or large target must roll on the eye of the table, if they kill a character in a challenge they may add or subtract one from the roll. Sorcerer must roll on the table if they kill a character or large target with a spell, character that receive 5 or more gifts must take a Toughness of test, if failed the character is turned into a Chaos spawn with a number of wounds equal to his remaining wounds, if marked the chaos spawn will bear the same mark.
Units: A unit ( apart for marauders) may roll on the eye of the table if it successful wins a round a of combat on a roll of a 6+, add one to the roll if they break the enemy unit and a additional +1 if they catch the enemy unit. This replaces the will of chaos rule
Champions of the Dark Gods: Any model in the unit with this rule may issue and except challenges as if it was a unit champion.
Enscrolled Weapons: A model with this special rule treats all its attacks as magical.
Daemonic: Models are treated as having magical attacks, stubborn and have a 5+ wardsave, if the model already have a wardsave it is instead increased by one to a maximum of a 4+
Daemonic Mounts: if your general is mounted on a daemonic mount the his leadership range is boost to 18" just like as if he was mounted on a large target, wounds upgraded to 3. Additional if you have a character riding a daemonic mount, chaos knights of the same mark may be upgraded to riding matching daemonic mounts (so if you include a hero on a jugger your chaos knights may be upgraded to ride juggernauts of Khorne)
When selection of army the minimum core must bear the same mark as your general, if you general has the mark of Chaos undivided then your minimum core may have any Mark of Chaos.
Marks of Chaos
Units: Units with the Mark of Khorne gain the frenzy special rule
Characters and Chaos Spawn: In addition to the Frenzy special rule Characters and Chaos spawn with the Mark of Khorne also gain the killing blow special rule
Warshrines: In additional to the normal mark of Khorne rules the giver of glory rule is replaced with "when a enemy targets a friendly unit within 12" of the warhsrine, you may add +1 to your dispel attempts, friendly units within 6" of the warshrine may reroll any rolls of a 1 to hit.
Giants: No Marks
Units: Units that bear the Mark of Nurgle gain the Regeneration 5+ special rule
Spawn: increase there mutant regeneration save to a 4+
Characters: In addition to the regeneration special rule, characters that bear the Mark of Nurgle now cause fear, if they already cause fear they now cause Terror instead
Warshrines: In addition to the normal rules for the mark of nurgle the giver of glory rule is replaced with "models within 6" gain the poison 6 special rule, if they already have the poison special rule then the unit/model causes poison hits on a roll of 5+ instead
Units: Units that bear the Mark of Slaanesh are immune to fear, terror and Panic, in addition to this they gain the strider special rule.
Characters and Spawn: In addition to the above rules Characters and Chaos Spawn that bear the Mark of slaanesh gain the ASF special rule
Warshrines: In edition to the normal rules for the Mark of Slaanesh the giver of glory rule is replaced with "all friendly models within 6" of the warshrine are now stubborn
Mark of Tzeentch
Units: Units that bear the Mark of Tzeentch must roll on the eye of the gods table at the start of the battlem this result may not be modified by any means
Spawn: Gain a S4 magical Breath weapon
Characters: In addition to the above rules, characters that bear the Mark of Tzeentch may be upgraded to a sorcerer, Exalted heroes may purchase up to two wizard levels while chaos lords may purchase up to four sorcerer levels at 50pts per level, Chaos sorcerers (not exalted or daemon prince) add +1 to their casting and dispelling attempts.
Warshrines: In addition to the normal rules for the Mark of Tzeentch The giver of glory rule is replaced with "All Friendly wizards add +1 to their attempts to channel and all friendly bound magic adds +1 to the casting roll.
Mark of Chaos Undivided:
Models that bear the mark f Chaos undivided my reroll failed panic tests.
Axe of Khorne: (35pts) Great weapon. The model gains the killing blow special rule, if the model already has the killing blow special rule it is replaced with the heroic Killing blow special rule.
Sword of Change: (50pts) +1 Strength, every time a model takes a wound but is not slain they must take a toughness test, if the test is failed the enemy model is transformed in a chaos spawn
Chaos Daemon Sword: (60pts) The wielder is +d3 Strength (roll at the start of each round of combat), in addition, the model increases it attacks by +1 for every enemy character slain in a challenge, roll at the start of every turn the wielder is not engaged on close combat, on a roll of a one the the take a wound with no armour save allowed.
Spelleater shield: (35pts) Shield. Any spell that targets the unit will miscast on a roll of a double, any spell that suffers a miscast is lost for the remainder of the battle on a roll of a 6+
Armour of Damnation: (35pts) Chaos Armour. Any model attacking the wearer must reroll succesful to hit rolls, if the model can reroll to hit the two rules cancel each other out.
Chaos Runeshield: (50pts) Shield. Any magical weapon in base to base contact with the wearer is losers all it special rules and it treated as a mundane weapon of the same type
Skull of Katam: (35pts) The bearer counts as one wizard level higher than normal but is subject to stupidity for the remainder of the game
Helm of Man eyes: (25pts) The model gains the always strike first special rule and stupidity special rule
Banner of the Gods: (75pts)The model bearing the banner causes terror, in addition, any chaos unit within 6" of the banner also gains the devastating charge special rule
Rapturous Standard: (50pts) Enemy models in base to base combat with the unit are at -1 WS, in addition a enemy unit may not make a stand and shoot charge reaction but may make all other reactions as normal
Skulltaker: (MoK only, 25pts)The hero now causes a killing blow on a 5+ instead of the normal 6+, this has no effect on heroic killing blow
Chosen of Khorne: (MoK only, 30pts)When the model issues a challenge he may force an enemy character to automatically accept his challenge providing the enemy model can actually move into base to base contact.
Fury of the Blood God: (MoK only, 25pts)The model may attempt to dispel spells as if a level 2 sorcerer.
Stream of Corruption: (MoN only, 25pts)Breathe weapon, models hit by stream of corruption must pass a strength test or suffer a single wound with a -2 save modifier
Slime Trail: (MoN Only, 30pts)The model and any unit he joins is with is treated as having no flank or rear for the purpose of combat res
Aroma of Ecstasy: (MoS only, 20pts)Enemy units/models in base to base contact with the character decrease their initiative value by 2
Allure of Slannesh: (MoS only, 30pts)Enemy models wishing to attack the character must first pass a leadership test on their unmodified leadership, if they fail the attacks are wasted
Wind Changer: (MoT only, 50pts)You may reroll the Winds of Magic dice, but the second result stands.
3rd Eye of Tzeentch: (MoT only, 25pts)The sorcerer may choose any lore from the warhammer rulebook, the sorcerer has gains the loremaster special rule.
Diabolic Splendour: As Book
Conjoined Homunculus:(25pts) Once per turn the sorcerer may choose to add a extra D6 to his casting roll, this extra can cause a Irresistable force. At the start of his following turn the character must test for stupidity.
Extra Arm:(20pts) The character has an extra arm, this means he may wield a additional weapon for a extra +1 attack (unless wielding a magical weapon) or use a shield and a two handed weapon.
Immortal Furry:(20pts) The model is subject to the rules of hatredOriginally Posted by LordsOriginally Posted by HeroesOriginally Posted by TroopsOriginally Posted by SpecialOriginally Posted by Rare
Why are you rewriting what is essentially already a good armybook? You can already run viable mono-god armylists, it's just that Khorne and Tzeentch are the favorites because they're the most effective. People will always play favorites - even in your armylist people are going to gravitate towards whichever mark is more effective for the cost or the rule effects.
Some of those buffs are pretty nasty. Warriors with KB is brutal, 2A and that kind of WS (even without the extra bump) is going to tear through people like butter. The Slaanesh rule of halving enemy WS pretty much means that everyone is being hit on 3's, the only people who aren't are WS10 characters, who hit on 4's. Most enemies will be hitting these guys on 5's. Why not just give them a -1 to hit, like the original Nurgle rule? 20pts a pop for Juggernauts seems underkill, gross underkill. I understand that the price of the steed is factored into the cost of the Knights, but even that doesn't make up for the difference in points.
Take a look into Tamurkhan if you get the chance. Also, playtest this list against yourself a few times, and against other people. Try to tone everything down a bit - if anything, start your points costs high, and work them down from there. The point of a fan-made book isn't to win, it's to have something different which better suits the fluff or your idea for the army.
Rewriting this because you post costed large amounts rage, I think if you reread your post you might see why someone might be pretty damned pissed off.
I actually started doing this back in 7th ed but after some personal life issues I had a long break from it and have decided to get back to it, most of the original work was on another forum but after recieving a PM from the Admin I thought I would start this topic here and see if I could get some constructive posts, now as for mono God armies I have question your understanding of 8th if you actually think a mono-god Khorne. 8th ed relies on magic users a proper mono-Khorne army should not include a magic user, a count as wizard makes the list unthemed. You want to try a list without a wizard against lore Shadow or a skaven list with dreaded 13th good luck, its a very horrible experience that just shows how important a magic user is. Being a WoC from 4th ed I can tell you the current book does not really allow for more than mono Tzeentch list, this partly due to the inductions of proper 4+ wardsaves which allow for multiple 3+ wardsaves which is incredibly unbalanced.
8th ed is mainly about large blocks of infantry in which case frenzy is far more effective than KB as this generates more kills which allows or you to break steadfast units quicker, hell hatred, rerolls to hit, devastating charge are all good options, I have looked into all of these, fact is KB isn't half as bad as it was it 7th, yes its good at killing character however if its a sorcerer you can get one guy into B2B (especially being on a 25mm base) and WS5 will hit 95% of them on a 3+. Its good against cavalry but as well but they are not optimal, the only cavalry it really effects are Brets who have a wardsave but something else you didn't notice, chaos warriors have been changed to I4 so they don't attack before most combat characters. This also means they shouldn't kill human heroes because they can just challenge and kill the champion before they strike. I would say MoK is a toss up between MR1 or +1 WS, the additional weapon skill doesn't mean very many troops will actually hit them on a 5+ either (no more than with WS5). Fact is that frenzy will provide more hits than WS6 as they hit most targets on a 3+ anyways.
MoS is a tough one, I had thought of -1 WS (infact it was like that for a while) however I did look through some old books and came across halve WS, your right it might be abit powerful, I do have other ideas, I had thought of strider and +1I to give the mark more of a use rather than creating another anvil unit, rather than insulting months and months of work, try being a little more constructive, If I was to make a post like this about something you painted, how pissed off would you be?
I assume by underkill you mean you think its rather weak? I don't see how? you basically get another chaos knights for free (I did have KB but I thought it might be to much), still for 20pts I think your forgetting the MC rules, as I have increased the wounds to two you are doubling the wounds of the model, providing a stomp attack and allowing the model to rank up 3 wide. I personally found that the Nurgle one in the Tarmurkhan was underpriced, Regen, two wounds and poison attacks for 15pts?
BTW, if you look through the WoC forum you will see I am a massive Tarmurkhan fan and I own one thanks, I got mine early and yes I have been taking ideas from it or did you not notice the idea of chaos knights only getting steeds if you took a character on the same mount? this is instead of taking a special character
Honestly, I can't think of a single person who wouldn't take offense to your post, you think my ideas are over powered, jesus you should see the crowd who think chaos warriors with MoS should have ASF or nurgle warriors should have T5 (one guys wanted regen and T5!).
Thing is, you haven't posted a single positive thing in your post, may as well keep this to warseer
Personally the only thing I really would like to see is some sort of Khorne dispell priest or wizard , but only usable in a mono khorne army. Your is one is a little overpowered. Possibly Khorne magic similar to Ogre gut magic so only things that buffs CC units combat effectiveness. I know Khorne hates wizards and all but would love to see some sort of Khorne soothsayer or Skall like the vikings had. (been reading too much Uthred Utheredson books)
Last edited by whatfruit; December 12th, 2011 at 11:06.
"my heart pump gangsta"
I actually put a Khorne warrior priest in the list which has bound spells that buff combat, WoC actually need some sort of MC so to make the heroes on MC useful, currently they are cannon bait, what exactly is over powered? do you feel KB for khorne is over powered? in what way is is overpowered? MoS? please read above post, have done what I originally did when I read MoK with KB? OMGZ thats so bronkenz? like I said originally I didn't have that but actually considering how the games works it isn't broken as it has little effect on most units as a halberd will generally be more effective than KB against units of infantry.
Maybe you think its broken on a Horde unit? its exactly the same thing, I dunno perhaps you feel +1WS is to much? I can't see how, they hit most units on a 3+ anyways, it only really effects combat heroes which are not widely used in 8th unless its a BSB, reality is a unit of grave guard because of smaller bases can get more KB attacks into B2B with a hero and pretty much always hit on a 2+.
Abit like CaptainSarathai post it isn't actually helpful
You obviously put a LOT of work into this and I can understand it is your baby. There could be folks that could be nicer in their critique, but don't fault them. And, since you have posted this for people's feedback you need to be able to take the good and the bad.
Overall, I do love some of the extreme lengths you have taken and would love to use this list! However, I do agree with the philosophy of some playtesting and add 15-20% to the point values, which is the best way to see if you have not overpowered the army.
All I can say is look here [WH] Mono gods WoC rule ideas - WarSeer I am very open to feedback however the first post is hardly feedback, its very much "your wasting you time and its so brokenz why are you bothering", I mean the very first line of that post is going to instantly cause offense to anyone who has invested time in something, the list itself isn't finished so I don't see the point in even trying to play test it (the points are very much place holder or missing), MoS I am not even sure about as I feel that may well just create another anvil unit. I had thought it could be more useful with the strider rule and +1 I value allowing the units to actually add something different. Tzeentch is also another tricky one, I had also thought perhaps to make it more about the god of change rather than the god of magic and allow them to roll on the EotG table before the game with no rerolls and a new weaker table.
Like I said I don't feel MoK is actually overpowered in 8th with KB because how many armies will be majorly effected by it? how many lists really use masses of cavalry, I think MC is going to be the new thing (which is immune), VC can make characters immune to it (and are only on a 20mm base), most armies have 4+ save on basic troops, a chaos warrior with a halberd can slice through that with ease, the +1 WS is up in the air, I do think its a toss up between MR1 and +1 WS, WS does seem very fighting considering the type of follower he has and it moves away from the "I'm crazy and wanna chop your head off" which isn't really what Khorne is about, not to mention is reflects the daemon book, bloodletters are clearly the best fighters in the Daemon book so it only followers that is mortals should be the best one on one fighters.
But thankyou for your post, I am very open to ideas to expand the list or even restrict the magic items list, an idea I did have was that perhaps have a limited selections of weapons that anyone could use but through synergy of the item they are just better when equipped to a model on the corresponding mark, say the Axe of khorne gives you KB but on a model with KB it grants HKB, stuff like that.
Have read through this twice so far and will add more to my post as well but a couple of things strike me. First the i5 down to i4. Have a compare to a lot of books. Warriors are getting hurt because they are taking hits back this decrease means a lot of troops get to hit before taking any damage. First thing that pops into my head is empire swordsmen in horde with warrior priest.
Secondly the war shrine for khorne negates all buffs and debugged if you want alive wizards. You then give the khorne army a way around this. Effectively this makes khorne better in the magic phase than the enemy where it counts. Currently it's buffs and debuffs that make warriors manageable for most armies.
I5 in most cases will not stop them taking hits back because of the stepup rule, with the example of a swordsmens even striking at the same times with WS4 and S3 they will still struggle to actually do any real damage needing 4+ to hit, 5+ to wound and then a 4+ save, if your up against a swordsmen unit then chances are it will be 5 wide with a character, so at most your looking at 10 S3 attacks +2 S4/6 attacks from the priest, I think the main armies it hurts them against are DE and WE, both armies have a lot of S3 attacks, witch elves and black guard already have I6, executioners have great weapons.
Khorne warshrine does no such thing, all it does is make people use less dice if they want to cast spells on a unit within the 12" bubble unless they are doing a big spell which to be honest they are going to be hoping for a double 6 anyways, all it really does is increase the risk of using the unbalanced spells, keep in mind puppet is not in the list of items and remember it will not effect spells that do not target the unit such as vortexs, my original idea was to have +2 to dispel rolls in the bubble but is that really what Khorne anti-magic should be about? should it not actually be backlash?