Outnumbered By Undead=autobreak. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
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    I do have one problem with this rule, and if it's changed sometime in the future, I'm happy!
    Lets say 3 unit of 6 silverhelms charge 10 cold one knights, and they loose combat by 1 (don't say it won't ever happen, not the point.), the silverhelms all autobreak, even though they outnumber the cold one knights when they all add their unit strength together! That is in my opinion completely *****ed up, since the silver helms are obviously alot more then the Cold one knights. Their unit strength should be added just like when you calculate if you get the +1 outnumbering bonus.


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  3. #2
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    Edit: Never mind, rules misconception. A very unnoticable one at that.

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    If you read the Defeated By Fearcausing Enemy part, you will see that I am right.
    A unit defeated in close combat is automatically broken without a break test if it is fighting an enemy that it fears and its unit strength is lower then the victorious enemy's unit strength.
    It says A UNIT, not all units defeated by the fearcausing enemy. Thus, all the units will have to count if they have a higher unit strength on their own unit strength, and they can't add it together with their friends in combat!

  5. #4
    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
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    171 (x6)

    What you have to do though is look at the stats for most of the units that cause fear. In the Vampire Counts all of the units cause fear but they also all suck in the stats department.

    Most OTHER armies only have a couple of units that cause fear and you just have to play differently against them. For instance, if someone has a units of knights that cause fear, then it's probably a good idea to make sure that they can only charge large blocks of your troops so that outnumbering doesn't become an issue. Also, use any type of ranged attacks that you have to bring that particular unit down in size before you have to deal with it in CC.

    Fear is a scary thing (no pun intended) but I really don't think that it is all that broken. In the end there are many things that you can do to keep it from really being a factor at all.

  6. #5
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Hmm.. I don't know while the VC units aren't the best, I'd say having more of your troops in battle along side you is more likely to keep your morale up. But I can see the problems there, if two units US 10 & 12 double up on skellies 20 then they win. No breaking and they outnumber, thus +1 CR.

    My problem with fear is the way you autobreak someone, it's too easy. Picture this -

    Your fighting 20 zombies in a unit of 20 dwarf warriors, now you're a bit scared as they're not pretty looking. And suddenly there's an extra ONE!!!

    Oh no!!! That big mindless brain munching zombie is gonna slay us all!! RUN!!!!!


    :glare:

    If anything I'd change that, IMO you shouildn't auto break unless the fear causing unit has a US of 5 more than you. So in the above example the zombies would need 25 to autobreak the dwarfs, this gives it to having big units and not trusting zombies in battle.

    That's what I'd do.

    KU

  7. #6
    LO Zealot Bawdymonkey's Avatar
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    But doesn't that rule only apply if you fail to pass the fear test?
    “Cry ‘Havoc’ and let slip the dogs of war!? - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I

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    I agree with what H0urg1ass said, as King_Ulrik and WiCkEdRock will know from IRC. Undead cause fear which is accounted for by the sheer crappiness of the statline of a basic undead warrior. But I can however see where you others are coming from. It's not just undead that cause fear, but other armies have to pay points for it too, even though it may not be noticable.

  9. #8
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Bawdymonkey Posted Yesterday, 226
    But doesn't that rule only apply if you fail to pass the fear test?
    No to both, the outnumber rule is always in effect. If outnumbered by a fear causing unit and you loose, you run.

    As I said I see Hourglass's point, the VC do have crappy main units but it's never about their fighting skills but always the fear. Most VCs unit will come with a vamp in the front rank to add CR, and if the units kills then its a bonus. But the point WR is getting at is, if you've got more units attacking (or a higher combined US) then why would you fear them?

    Units would take heart from their nearby units and wouldn't fear them, so the total US could be used making it harder for those small units of COK to autobreak big blocks. But again I will point out a flaw in this, if those three SH units attacked the COK using this idea then they'd win via outnumber (US2 per steed 2x6 = 12 12x3 = 36) thus gaining the outnumber bonus and winning combat. And it be extremely nasty vs VC (Imagine 20 spearmen + Griffon Banner with 5 knights in the flank!&#33. This would basically crumble them in a single drawn combat.


    But the idea I said is that to autobreak they must have US5 higher than the unit, this makes it so that the non fear causing unit don't much care about that single zombie at the back that would autobreak them.

    KU

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Bawdymonkey's Avatar
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    Pg. 81 of Rule Book
    It says you only automatically break if you fear the enemy unit and that it outnumbers you. So that means if you pass your fear test, you no longer fear it.
    “Cry ‘Havoc’ and let slip the dogs of war!? - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I

  11. #10
    Keeper of Records and Ale King Ulrik Flamebeard's Avatar
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    1372 (x8)

    Bawdy - I don't think it works like that, otherwise against high LD armies VCs would be bad. If they pass the LD tests then they'd never autobreak, which is kinda the main tactic behind VCs.

    The correct way is that if they are outnumbered and beaten by a fear causing unit, they autobreak. The fear test is used to determine only if they will flee, hit of 6s or stay put etc.

    KU

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