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Who Thinks Ap1/2 Weapons Should Be Power Weapons

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#1 ·
If AP 1/2 weapons can penetrate armour, shouldn't they be classified as power weapons? (I only say this because I Play against necrons and they don't come back on Power Weapons.
What do you think?
 
#2 ·
Originally posted by rickyningoo@Jan 29 2005, 20:10
If AP 1/2 weapons can penetrate armour, shouldn't they be classified as power weapons? (I only say this because I Play against necrons and they don't come back on Power Weapons.
What do you think?
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AP 1/2 weapons are different to power weapons for a reason.

Power weapons have a power field which cuts through ANY armour.
AP 1/2 weapons just happen to be strong enough to get through most armours
 
#3 ·
Well considering that a weapon double the strength of a necron will have the same effect as a power weapon there isnt a problem here. The reason it was done this way was to keep game coherancy. Autokill is autokill. AP just doesnt allow armor saves.
 
#4 ·
Maybe just AP1 (for WBB purposes only). A necron who is hit with a melta or railgun is not gonna get back up (even a necron lord) and as for the Eldar longrifle rolling a 6 to hit, say that it hit the part of the Necron that made it self-repair.
 
#5 ·
look, you're not going to fire a meltagun in melee combat, with all your comrades all around. you'd kill your enemies, sure enough, but you'd probably be flailing a bit too much and burn off your friend's top half.

in combat, a soldier with a meltagun or other such gun is assumed to be smashing it into the head of his enemy. thus it is not a power weapon. i do not believe that there are any guns that count as power weapons, unless they have some sort of bayonet.
 
#6 ·
So lets get this clear, you want to do a special rule for the sole purpose of giving you an advantage vs a certain army?

Necron Warriors are not the unbalanced part of the Necron war machine and creating special rules to work against them will only encourage players to take more Resurection Orbs and more Monoliths.

AP1 could work but still looks like a free advantage for certain armies.
 
#7 ·
don't burnas count as power weapons in close combat...

damn orks, so deceptively clever... they're the most sinister genious in the warhammer universe, they could take a cardboard box, stick wheels on the sides of it, put in a foam paper plate as a steering wheel, splash red paint all over it, and draw a button on the inside that says 'GO!', and it'd probably turn on and be able to drive around; just because in their weird mentality they believed it could work.
 
#8 ·
Hmm.... Aren't most ap1/2 weapons strong enough to prevent WBB, anyways? I mean, lascannons are s9, meltas are s8, exorcist is s8, etc. The only real exceptions are plasma weapons and fusion guns. Personally, though, the only ap1/2 weapons I can see that should get a rule that prevents WBB are melt weapons, fusion guns, and fire pikes (I think fire pikes... not sure) because they literally melt the metal of what they hit into a blob- other weapons that would be talked about mostly just blow the 'crons to pieces so they can just reform or are strong enough to ID all but the lords, immortals, and destroyers. Personally, I don't think we really need more anti-necron weapons- there are already enough power weapons, powerfists, rending, and Monsterous Creatures to go around.
 
#10 ·
While that does generally go without saying, there are quite a few things that were created to go against only 1 or 2 armies. I remember tau having an item that all it really did was detect ambushing catachans and lictors- if thats not to go against only one army, what is? Besides, some things look good according to fluff- I'd say it'd be quite fluffy if melta weapons ignored WBB, though it wouldn't be nearly as much with lascannons, the exorcist, or plasma weapons.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Direct quote from GW fluff:

"Quite so. Although bear in mind that the Necrons of that time, or perhaps that allegiance, were far more powerful than those emergent over the last few years. The Eldar simply could not defeat them. But Vaul was resourceful, and no doubt necessity spurred him on to the achievement that held the Necron invasion in check."

+++ PLASMA TECHNOLOGY HAS PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE AGAINST STANDARD PATTERN NECRONS. DID THE ELDAR KNOW OF A BETTER WAY?+++

So how is it unfluffy for Plasma to ignore WBB?

EDIT: Oh, and rules that very specifically go against 1 or 2 armies are bad? new Black Templar codex. There's an upgrade that ignores Lance effects for LRCs.
 
#12 ·
Revlid said:
EDIT: Oh, and rules that very specifically go against 1 or 2 armies are bad? new Black Templar codex. There's an upgrade that ignores Lance effects for LRCs.
actually the armored company got that originally
i wouldnt mind having plasma pistols cout as power weaps in cc
 
#13 ·
jancz said:
actually the armored company got that originally
i wouldnt mind having plasma pistols cout as power weaps in cc
Which then raises the question of 'why not give the bugger armed with the plasma pistol a power sword?'
Anyone that can get a hold of a plasma pistol is able to grab a power sword from the armory. The only exception I can think of off of the top of my head are Beakie assault squads.
I like the necrons as they are just fine. A looted demolisher still squishes them flat and they still go up in flames when you send a unit of skarboyz at them armed with burnas. I fail to see the problem.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Phalanx said:
While that does generally go without saying, there are quite a few things that were created to go against only 1 or 2 armies. I remember tau having an item that all it really did was detect ambushing catachans and lictors- if thats not to go against only one army, what is?
That's true. Its also a bad rule, because it only affects 1 or 2 armies.

Believe me, I think the Necrons are OTT and due some toning down, but rewriting basic game-mechanics (which the entire game is balanced against) just to gain an advantage against one army is not the way to go about it. The way to go about it is to tone down the offending codex.
 
#15 ·
A couple points:

1) Someone mentioned earlier that weapons are not used for shooting in close combat, however, GW had this to say when asked why 40k does not employ the Stand and Shoot rules found in Warhammer Fantasy Battles: "Close combat is a swirling melee of troops leaping, spinning, hacking and slashing at one another. As well as fighting hand-to-hand, warriors will be firing at point blank range at any target that presents itself."

There is shooting in close combat, however, as another poster mentioned it is not quite intelligent to change the entire game mechanics to fix a Codex. It makes playability simpler, however, to decide to not delineat between shooting and hand to hand attacks. Instead, we just pretend that all the attacks are bashing and slashing.


2) It's the Necron Codex that needs a little reworking and not the Big Grey Book. (Just for the record, I only think that the Monolith is truly broken) I realize that this has already been said, but I thought that it needed reiterating. The BGB should never be modified to fix a problem with Codex specific shortcomings.


3) There is really no point to making AP 2/1 weapons into power weapons. The fact that they beat the armor value of anything they shoot at precludes the necessity of also giving them the "power" modifier. The reason that Power Weapons have the "Power" modifier is because there is no ST or AP values for Close Combat weapons, so there was a necessity to devise a classification for a Close Combat weapon that removes a save in the same manner that AP 1/2 does.

Uh uh, no way, no how, hit em like blow blow,
H0urg1ass
 
#16 ·
Also if you are going to start making exceptions for the ap of some weapons why not others, Space marines should have ap5 in combat along with tau and sisters, etc. Also firing a melta weapon in combat would be hazordous at best.
 
#17 ·
What I think it should be is the opposite. I think that power weapons should be ap 1 weapons. That would give them some boost against vehicles since I think that they should have the same effect on vehicle armor while the lower strength would keep them balanced.
 
#18 ·
I think some of you guys are missing a part of this. I don't think that the big issue is close combat and this would affect more than just the necrons.

1) the issue is if you are shooting a destroyer or a heavy destroyer with a melta gun should it gets it's WBB roll (WBB roll terminology also should include feel no pain, and bionics bonuses, so it is more than just one army). According to the rules, but I would aggree that I don't think it should, why would a strength high strength weapon being shot not prevent the roll, while a low strength weapon being used in hand negate the roll? I think the ultimate example of why weapons that penetrate armor is the rending rule...Why can a Necron/Deathcompany/Bionicmarine stand back up when shot to peices by an Assault cannon, but stay down when a hit by a genestealer? I just don't think it makes sence.

2)I don't think the issue is if a Model with a Melta gun in CC should negate WBB rolls is the issue, I think that was brought in because some one brought up the super inteligent Orks and their crafty devices.

3)It does affect more than just Necrons if you include the wording into any skill or item that allows a fallen soldier to return to the battlefield after being taken as a casualty.
 
#19 ·
Rending... Hmmmmmm
When genstealer rends you it has got its claws clampped to a seam or somthing like that and then it pulls you apart and destroys your innards. Imagine that you hold a paper bag in your hands, then you grab the sides of the bag and rip it apart, its basically the same thing, 'stealer has just found a soft spot, then it rips the armor off you and crushes the ''hahaha-you-cant-kill-me-when-I-have-this-thing-that-WILL-BRING-ME-BACK'' gizmo and its the same thing if you just shot necron with railgun from three feet away...
 
#20 ·
I like the idea that AP 1 weapons would prevent resurecction, etc. However, the only weapons with AP 1/2 that I could see working as power weapons might be pistols, as they do in fact count as close combat weapons. Other weapons with AP are not discharged at close quarters.
 
#21 ·
Being a Necron Player, this will sound a little biased and I know that this thread is somewhat old:

1)
Some of you guys are getting way too carried away with the notion of AP 1/2 weapons having the same effect as power weapons. The reality, as pointed out by others, is that most AP 1/2 weapons are of high strength which prevents WBB rolls in the first place so it would be redundant to make them 'power weapon like'.

2)
The most important thing is, no matter how unfair it seems, We'll be back rule is what makes Necrons... necrons. They are designed to self-repair after taking the most brutal of damage. Obviously, they are already reasonable exceptions to this rule that prevents WBB rolls. ie double strength vs toughness, power weapons and the like in CC.
In addition, rewriting WBB to be similar to Feel no pain is an incredibly silly thing to do. If that happens, then necron warmachine will be very weakened as it is easier to kill FNP models. This will cause the loss of appeal to play as necrons because they will become over-priced and heavily outnumbered as models no longer have the survivability of several models.
DON'T CHANGE THE WBB RULE!!! Clarifying it to be easier to understand is fine but it is inappropriate to define it as FNP or bionics. They just wouldn't be necrons without the WBB.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
 
#22 ·
look, you're not going to fire a meltagun in melee combat, with all your comrades all around. you'd kill your enemies, sure enough, but you'd probably be flailing a bit too much and burn off your friend's top half.

in combat, a soldier with a meltagun or other such gun is assumed to be smashing it into the head of his enemy. thus it is not a power weapon. i do not believe that there are any guns that count as power weapons, unless they have some sort of bayonet.
This guy said it all...no one is stupid enough to fire such a weapon at point blank.
 
#23 ·
look, you're not going to fire a meltagun in melee combat, with all your comrades all around. you'd kill your enemies, sure enough, but you'd probably be flailing a bit too much and burn off your friend's top half.

in combat, a soldier with a meltagun or other such gun is assumed to be smashing it into the head of his enemy. thus it is not a power weapon. i do not believe that there are any guns that count as power weapons, unless they have some sort of bayonet.
acctualy ork burnas count as power weapons :S
 
#25 ·
Bear in mind this thread is nearly 4 years old. The rules have changed. If we want to reinvigorate this topic, then it's best to open up a new thread, where fresh dialogue aren't being thrown against outdated rules.

*thread closed*
 
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