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i've been thinking about this custom army idea for a while. The imperium has an army (IG) and a marine corp (SM) but no special ops divisions. i wanted to make an army that has several small well trained and well equiped teams. This is what i have so far I still need more ideas.
everyone has krak and frag nades, and infiltrates, and has scout ability.
Points WS BS S T W I Ld Sv
~15 1 4 3 3 1 1 9 5+
weapons: Assault rifle, STR 4, AP -, 18", assault 2
cameloline cloak (eldar version) +2 to cover saves
optional components for assault rifle: each AR can have ONE of these components for an additional 8 points.
underslung grenade launcher: the soldier may use this OR the AR to attack in the shooting phase, frag grenade (STR 3, AP 6 (i think it needs to be stronger))
Scope: the AR stats are changed to; STR4, AP -, 24", assault 2
Drum clip: the AR stats are changed to; STR 4, AP -, 12", assault 3
Fast attack teams (needs a name, and more optional equipment):
same stats as obove, cameleoline cloaks, move 6" in assault phase
weapons: SMG STR3, AP 4, rappid fire 24"
Heavy weapons teams:
can take what ever imperium weapons from the IG codex, need more ideas for them.
any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Well really I wouldn't say these 'special forces' makes any sense, as special forces already exist, the Stormtroopers, and the Space Marines.
A lot of the upgrades you mention here would basically be better being replaced with stormbolters, the fulfill the same function and need no stretch of the imagination, rather than scoped drum fed lasrifles.
The only thing I have a major problem with is 'Eldar' cameoline cloaks. Xeno-tech is heresy, and always destroyed. If your men used Eldar cloaks the Inquisition would be rounding them up and shooting them.
However crudely put, I have to agree with Addoran.
Not all that bad, though.
They aren't lasguns per-say they are special forces weapons. storm troppers are hardly special forces, quite frankly they wouldn't be able to complete any operation of signifigant importance without 30-50 guys. Storm bolters would be big, loud, heavy, and clunky to work with. The assaut riffle is less powerful and hence smaller and more quiet than the storm bolter.
Space marines are hardly covert, i don't think 10' tall 4' wide super soldiers would be very stealthy, or ever could be for that matter.
as for the eldar cloaks, i meant the same stats as the cloaks, not actually eldar tech, they are simply more advanced cloaks.
it sounds to me like you guys don't really like the idea of a special forces army. i know it doesn't go with the 40k style of play but i think it would add an interesting change to the game play.
I think you might want to brush up on your fluff a bit. Space Marines are well known for their stealth and hit and run tactics. Armies such as the Raven Guard rely completely on stealth and infiltration tactics.Originally Posted by cidic
And don't forget all space marines armies have scouts, specialist infiltrators who spend weeks at a time behind enemy lines, gathering intelligence, sabotaging, ambushing etc.
i dont see how any 10' tall 4' wide space marine (scout or not) could be an effective stealth/infiltration unit. and even if they were they aren't equipped for sabatoge or demolitions. I also can't picture a space marine hitting and running at all. they don't really retreat for any reason ever.
Quoting the codex:
"Scouts range ahead of the Space Marine armies, gathering intelligence on enemy forces and acting a support role of the chapter's battle brothers. They often work behind enemy lines and it is a dangerous baptism of fire indeed, as scouts are frequently called to fight their way clear of enemy warriors to return safely"
"Famed for their lethal surgical strikes and fearsome stealth tactics, the Raven Guard rarely engage in a frontal assault unless there is no other option. Attacking behind the lines, the Raven Guard strike where their assaults will do the most damage then withdraw before their foes will react"
So basically this pretty much states:
1/ Space Marines are effective stealth/infiltration units.
2/ They are equipped for sabotage and demolitions.
3/ They retreat where necassary and are willing to hit and run.
I challenge you to get a 10' x 4' piece of wood, paint it blood angels red and hide it from anyone that it has LOS to.
space marines are only 7 ft tall for one. and a tiger, a bear, or any number of animals who are larger than humans are quite capable of being stealthy. the scouts make extensive use of camaflage. space marines would have a noise and light discipline that no normal human could match. their strength and agility would give them and incredable advantage, and the fact that they can breath underwater would give them just one more option. most special forces people i have met, be they SEALS, recon, or delta, tend to be of above average height themselves, and they do fine.
and the chapters that specialise in stealth tend to have darker colors anyway
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Vegitarianism is willingly demoting yourself on the food chain.</span>
How is an assault rifle as powerful as a bolter? Modern assault rifles, in 40k world, would be autoguns, which are worse than lasguns. And how is it an assault weapon.. Assault weapon means that it doesn't require aiming, like a flamer, a meltagun or a shotgun. You just point it in the right direction and fire. An assault rifle requires aiming to be effective.
And yes.. special ops really aren't as great as they are in the movies, especially not on a battlefield which has waves of alien terrors and soldiers whose armour can stop cannon shells. Stormtroopers are perfectly suited to represent elite Imperial guard troops.
Besides, they're good. In fact they're very good, if you use them correctly.
The fact is, even very well equipped, a normal human can only do so much. In a straight fight, which is what 40k is all about, those crappy south American militas we always see in the films would turn the special forces guys into swiss cheese. They might take more casualties doing it, but that's not the point. The only reason special forces are effective is because of stealth, and 40k doesn't really accomodate small group, stealth situations outside of kill team.
I'd highly suggest making a custom Imperial guard kill team, if you want to play a real special forces style mission.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; March 29th, 2005 at 00:40.