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Ok, so I'm no great player or rules creator but I'm gonna get members thoughts on this subject.
Now I'm a dwarf player, and my nice sturdy blocks will hold against almost anything in combat. But should I loose and be outnumbered by a single zombie/skeleton/decaying rat I break automatically. I ask why?
Now there are many, over at Bugman's, that would want to get round this weakness by making dwarfs immune to outnumbering (unless outnumbered 2:1) but this would mean to break 20 warriors you'd need at least 40 zombies/skellies etc and then to win combat. IMO not right and that's trying to compensate for some weakness, also all other races have to deal with being auto-broken.
No, I think the problem is more with the Fear rules themselves. It seems utterly unlogical that one single zombie more could break a unit of determined warriors, so I think the way fear causing and combat winning is the core of the problem.
What are you thought's on this? I have seen a few suggestions and probably the best one I have seen is the following;
When a unit looses in combat to a fear causing unit they don't auto-break. Instead they take a Break Test as per normal, but with a few extra mods;
For each point they loose combat by they suffer an extra -1 to their Break Test. Eg
Unit (LD 8 ) looses combat to a unit of two zombies by two. So they are now on LD 6 to pass, but with this rule they loose an extra 2 pts of LD. And now are on LD4.
The idea behind it means loosing big time vs fear causers is bad and equal a harder time to stay in combat, but it also means the unit has a chance of staying.
ATM, I feel VC are too powerful when a combat generator is placed in a big unit (Ie Vampires in blocks of Zombies/Skellies) and thus making it much easier to break a unit by the hero's + fear alone.
Another idea, this one is my own personal one, is like above; normal BTs but you -1 LD for every US10 the fear causers have than your unit.
20 dwarfs fight 30 Skellies and loose by 1. So are now on LD8. But the Skellies has a higher US, so the dwarfs loose an extra 1 and now test on LD7 (30 skellies vs 20 dwarfs = 10 US more).
Again making it harder for the dwarfs to stay, giving the impression that the weight of the numbers is pressing down on them and eating at their nerves.
It would appear to me that the first "solution" would make Stubborn units far more powerful, becuase they always test on their unmodified leadership, which negates Stubborness' only real disadvantage.
I quite like your addition to the 1st idea, although I don't like the 1st idea itself, however, you were saying that a single skellie/zombie/whatever would cause the auto-break, but a single arrow can make the diff between that extra US10, which seems a bit unfair...
You cannot win, for to fight us is to give us power.
Dwarfs have good infantry as do most armies, VC has to rely on fear causing to win combat... the rule you suggest will mess with that balance.
And as you said, if you loose to skellies or zombies its usually because there is a nasty vampire at the from of said unit... his leadership is high, usually 9 or 10, affectively negating any effect of the rule you suggested.
Actually most infantry aren't that good, the average LD is 6-8. So you stick a tooled vamp in a unit and watch as the CR from his kills drops that LD to 4-5. Then for that single model at the back to break them.
It's not really only VC, but other fear causing units. That one single model/wound can mean a unit legs it. That is the problem.
Neb - Yeah, suppose that is now the flipside.