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I am a torn man between warhammer 40k and warhammer fantasy. I love 40k for its originality of units and freedom to mobilize units. Fantasy I love because of the more indepth rules that it has. Sometimes I wish that 40k wasn't so dumbed down (probablly due to the hoards of young uns that want their space marines) but it may have just always been that way for simplicity.
Shooting Modifiers - Instead of cover saves, hull downs, and heavy / assault / rapid fire weapons, their could be a new system of +'s and -'s that affect the ballistic skill roll to hit, similarly to warhammer fantasy. Some examples of some interesting changes that could take place are as following:
-Bonuses to hit at tanks, and vehicles, perhaps varying on size (a.k.a. even an ork should be able to hit a land raider from 6" without much trouble).
-Instead of automatically downgrading all penetrating hits to glancing hits on skimmers (as they can still be penetrated but it must be very hard to actually hit) that vehicles give negative modifiers to infantry shooting at them depending on their speed or if they are a skimmer and what not.
-Units carrying heavy weapons attempting to shoot in the same turn they moved could recieve a heavy penalty as they would rush to load and fire a missile for example.
-Assault weapons and rapid fire weapons used to chug out two shots and 12" range would receive no penalty for moving compared to many other weapons.
Armour Modifiers - I understand that the AP system is very important for W40k, but a armour modification system should be included. Armies like marines and necrons are so drastically different from other armies that often times 'balanced' lists that oppose them stand little to no chance due to the armour of their basic troop. Anti infantry weaponry become nearly useless against them and are rarely put in armies because of how common marine players are and so on.
-Somethings just don't make sense in warhammer 40k for armour saves. A Basilisks Earth Shaker cannon cannot penetrate a direct shot on to a terminator (understandable) but there are lots of things that go into play besides actually penetrating armour. Underneath that armour is a body with vital organs and bones that can't resist certain amounts of force. A terminator is strong, but a cannon powerful enough to flatten buildings and shake the earth would probably pound the terminator with enough force to probably liquify and knock the lifeless terminator armour a few dozen feet under ground.
WS Changes- Weapon skill should be the key factor in assaults, if not atleast as important as the physical attributes, and most definitely not nearly useless. Weapon skill really makes almost an insignificant impact because even with an amazing difference it only equals the difference of 1pt of S and T. This goes for both warhammer 40k and fantasy, as it is silly in both situations. Lets take for example an avatar vs a tau fire warrior. The avatar having the maximum WS and the fire warrior having almost the lowest ranking possible. One would think that the godlike incarnation of war with such a high level of skill could not even be touched by the scared like of the slow and tiny little fire warriors. I believe instead of the (if you have 1 higher ws you hit on 3+ and if you have double plus 1 of their ws they hit on 5+) it should be like the following chart:
- - -
(You) WS 3 vs (Enemy) WS3 - (You hit on a 4+ and so do they.)
(You) WS 4 vs (Enemy) WS3 - (You hit on a 3+, they hit on a 4+.)
(You) WS 5 vs (Enemy) WS3 - (You hit on a 3+, they hit on a 5+.)
(You) WS 6 vs (Enemy) WS3 - (You hit on a 2+, they hit on a 5+.)
(You) WS 3 vs (Enemy) WS3 - (You hit on a 2+, they hit on a 6+.)
and so on... sorry if that does not make too much sense but it is a simple pattern of for every on ws higher you have than the enemy it rotates between you gaining +1 to hit and them losing -1 to hit. The rotating method is like that so ws is not as extremely drastic as strength and toughness.
This change might not work exactly perfect as the stats for units are based on the original chart of weapon skill, so things like the avatar would be almost unbeatable for their price.
What da you guys have to say or add to this? Thank you.
Firstly, I think that the original intent of the forum was to add rules within the framework of the game and not to change the fundamental game mechanics. Secondly, some of these things that you mention were incoporated to previous versions of warhammer 40k (such as the armor modification) and were taken out to speed up gameplay. Having to modify this and that constantly is a major turn off to many people and makes the game last twice as long. It would do you good to try and play a game of 40k with the original Rouge Trader rules that many of us learned on. Every weapon had a different set of rules to accurately capture its effect and it was a large pain in the ass. Some things have been made easier, but lets not forget that this is a sci-fi game and attempts to bring the action into a playable setting.
Also when you are trying to simulate combat there are things you just can't do with a nice looking game table and glued together miniatures. Whats to say that fire warriors aren't so much smaller than an avatar that its hard to hit them when they are running around? Or maybe hes so damn big that they can't help but hit him? What if the terminator was only glanced by the weapon, or it carved off something of relative unimportance to him, and he could still fight? Any number of things can't be taken into account without having a very unserviceable set of rules.
I for one agree with most of the things you are saying but if these changes are made we would have two game that are the same, just in a diffenet universe.
By day he fought with sword and shield.....
By night he fought with pen and parchment.....
He was....The Warrior Poet.......
Fear the ANZAC Clan!!!!!
ORDER OF THE SHADOWY FLAME!!!
Do you have uber micro...????
how could I find these rogue trader rules, and if i could are they even balanced?