Codex: Necromancers- Discussion

[Scuba T]

phalanx, I like your stats, but maybe change the Freak a little. We wanted to simplify the herald, not create something more complex.

[Phalanx]

Well, the whole freak thing is because I wanted to make a form that the people could do anything they wanted with. I mean, some people want to make a T 10 creature- you can do that, though you'll pay through the roof for it. I think of Heralds as the necro's ultimate creations- designed to do their job beyond what any mortal can do. The different modes depict different jobs- to kill without distinction( berzerker), to destroy enemy armor( tank hunter), to kill the enemy commanders (assasin), or just to show off what the necro is capable of creating (The Freak). Besides, I don't think its very complicated at all. Please tell me the complex part and I will try to smooth it over.

And the goal wasn't to over-simplify the herald, but to give it some good options and to replace the assasinate ability. Or at least thats what I thought it was.... Personally, the freak is my favorite of the forms jsut because if you want, you could make a near invinciable monster, though it would cost around 2000 points, as it should. It just makes it more interesting.

[{I}ron {M}an]

ok been gone awhile....i dont get freak, well i do, but its too jumbley and hard to read and i dont really get which one is which, clean it up a bit and explain it better, i do like the idea tho. also on the profile for the new herald, it says you can get a decapitator for 50 points and then for 35 points....what is a decapitator anyways?

i like the new terrain features....maybe say for a certain number of points you can "blight" a forest on the table or "goo" a water feature? maybe so many points for every square inch or something

i vote we keep the old harvesters...i really like them...i know we have a lot of big guys but that allows more variety because really bringing something back to life isnt that normal....plus i like them! (did i mention i liked them?)


dump the corpse golem, the undead is better i agree

o by the way in the fluff for the cultists it says they figure out what an archeo weapon does and then the heralds get it....so technically it wouldnt be random...i think the heralds should have them again...maybe instead of the big gun and the decapitator make it archeo sword and gun. make them cost more, and say that u can choose which gun u get, and same with sword, roll a d6 and if u get a 6 u get to do the sword mastercrafted thing

damned minds....i think they do need a re-vamp although i like them pretty much as they are.....are they a dreadnaught type thing or just a single guy...i didnt really read/get the fluff for them...i volunteer to do them tho..i havent done anything in a while

[Phalanx]

A decapitator is a powerfist with -1 attacks and -1 intitiative. It says that under Harvesters. Anyways, for the assasin herald, it says you take a decap, and gain the skillful sever rules and you may pick the casulties from a herald. The freak is more custimizable, so it buys everything seperate, but is unable to get the special rules of other types of heralds. It makes sense that a necro might want to make an ultimate undead warrior, so thats what the freak represents.

I did try to make the freak as simple as possible, though. Take toughness upgrade, for example:

T5/6/7/8/9/10 (+15/30/60/120/240/480 pts)

That means to get t5 it costs 15 pts, 30 for T6, 60 for T7, 120 for T8, 240 for T9, and 480 pts for T10. I personally don't see whats so hard to figure out there, though it is a bit squished there.

And I like the new harvestors- you could use dryads to represent them as they look like the art that Unseen( Unseen was the one that thought of them, right?) based the harvestors on. The old ones would have had to be too large to do that- in my opinion, anything with S or T 5 should be at least the size of a new termy unless its because of a piece of wargear. Dryad figures are too small. This way, you can just get a bunch of dryads, put them on 40K bases, and call them harvestors. Besides, we can't have 2 big single elite people- if we kept the old harvestors, then no more herald. On another point, anyone have an idea of what they think the herald looks like? When I think of it, I think of the Zombie Assasin card from magic the gathering, though I guess as an undead model, one could use a Lictor or something, too.

As for the terrain thing, most codexes don't mention their own terrain special rules- they just use the terrain rules from the main rule books and stuff.

However, if you want to keep them (they are cool ideas), then I would remove the water one, though maybe make it so water counts as dangerous terrain, make the tree one attack anything that comes in range, but also make it so when a unit comes near tree you roll a d6: On a 4 or 5 its woodwraiths, on a 6 its a Gibbet thing. The tree counts as charging and is moved into cc with the unit, and it will attack either player's units. And as for te grave yard thing, make it cost like 30 pts or something, and must be in the necromancer's deployment zone. Or maybe the enemy gets 100 vps for every unit within 6" of the cemetary, but its free.

[Unseen Lurker]

I don't mind using the new Harvesters profile, like Phalanx says we need a more 'hordish' Elite unit. I just wanted to know if I should keep the fluff I wrote for the original ones, for both them and the HoD.

Phalanx; what makes The Freak upgrade so hard to follow is A- it's so squished together and B- you need to make things a little clearer that you're purchasing bonus stat points with it. Also, yes I am the one who thought up the Harvesters (about the only unit I did create)- and where did you see the art I based them on? As for the Herald of Death, you could just either A- dead up an Imp Assassin or B- combine bits from a WF Vampire (Blood Dragons work best) and an Imp Assassin.

The terrain features came after reading the Necrons codex; they have unique terrain features, and I think the Tyranids do (or at least they did), Digestion Pools and Spore Colonies as I recall.

What do people think of those story ideas I posted last time?

[Phalanx]

Well, I guess I could space out the upgrades and stuff a bit... A for the Harvesters, you showed SM and I the pic in the old necro topic. I think you can keep the old fluff..... It looks alright. For the terrain, it does mention the terrain and stuff, but there are no special rules for it. I have both of the codexes in question.

Here's a slightly cleaned up version of the Herald:
0-1 Herald of Death
Pts: 90
Ws: 5
Bs: 3
S: 5
T: 4
W: 3
A: 3
I: 5
Ld: 10
Sv: 4+/ 5+

Rules:
Ambush: Must DS into terrain, cannot scatter out of the terrain, may charge the turn it appears.
Dodge : 5+ inv save
Works Alone: Is immune to By your will and always counts as having los to the commander. Does not count as a survivor for meat grinder, cannot hold table quarters or an objective.

Specialist: Pick one of the options below-
Berzerker: A becomes 6, +2 attacks on charge instead of +1, furious charge, 2x power weapons. +40pts
TAnk Hunter: Melta bombs, melta gun, tank hunter. + 30 pts
Assasin: Skillful sever, may pick which enemy models take the wounds in cc, decapitator. + 50pts
The Freak: May select any amount of stat modifiers and weapons from below.

Please note stat modifyers go like this X1/2/3/4/5 (+ 1/2/3/4/5 pts)
Toughness 5/6/7/8/9/10 (+15/30/60/120/240/480 pts)

Strength 6/7/8/9/10 (+ 6/12/24/48/96 pts)

Initiative 6/7/8/9/10 (+ 8/16/32/64/128 pts)

Attacks 4/5/6/7/8/9/10 (+ 10/20/40/80/160/320/740 pts)

Weapon skill: 6/7/8/9/10 (+ 4/8/16/32/64 pts)

Ballistic skill: 4/5/6/7/8/9/10 (+ 6/12/24/48/96/192/384 pts)

Wounds 4/5/6/7/8/9/10 (+ 15/30/60/120/240/480/960 pts)

Weapons: Decapitator (+ 35 pts)
Power weapon (+ 20 pts)
CCW (+ 2 pts)
Heavy assault weapon (Rng 24" S 7 Ap 3 Assault 2) (+ 20 pts)

If the stat thing is still too hard to read, then maybe I'll cut some of the higher point stat upgrades and put it more like:

Toughness 6 +xpts, Toughness 7 +xxpts
Strength 10 +u pts

Would that be better? I don't want to make a set +1 T thing as its worth a lot more points to go up from t5 to t6 then t4 to t5 and stuff.

[Unseen Lurker]

That looks much better, but shouldn't Ambush actually allow it to Deep Strike? Because it can't Deep Strike only into terrain if it can't Deep Strike at all. I've replaced the current versions of HoD and Harvesters with the new versions you've done. However, I altered it so that it costs +30 points for a basic Harvester to get Decapitators and +20 points for a Fiend to get them- generally a Champion gets things cheaper than a trooper. I do think they should have kept the Killing Blow rule:
Killing Blow: Harvesters normally attack by flailing wildly in all directions, succumbing to the sheer joy of causing panic and random bloodshed. But occasionally their masters need a particular specimen in better shape, or they encounter a creature which may well prove their match unless they destroy it with a single blow. In such cases, they are capable of focusing their talents into a single, almost surgical, strike- one that usually results in their opponent being decapitated, disembowelled or severed neatly in two! A Harvester can surrender all of its normal attacks for that round to make a single special attack, which wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness. This attack automatically slays a creature wounded by it, regardless of how many wounds it has remaining. This special attack does not benefit from -1 Armour Save Penalty imposed by using a Decapitator.

By the way, the Necron Terrain pieces I was thinking of are on page 61 of the Necron Codex; the Campaign Play sector. Not all of them have special rules, but some do- Sandstorm, Power Conduit, Mesa ect. If the Necromancer-Terrain is a no-go, about a Necromancers scenario or two? Because several codexes have them (Necrons have Tomb Raid for example).

I've altered the Cauldron-Born as follows; let me know what you think!

Cauldron-Born
Unlike usual zombies, which can be reanimated even from the oldest of corpses, the Cauldron-Born (a name who's origins have been lost in the sands of time, even the oldest of Necromancers are unsure of it's true meaning) can only be created in one way. For a Cauldron-Born to be created a Necromancer must find a warrior at the very moment of death, before the warriors spirit can completely escape the Necromancer must apply a rune to the helmet of the armour, this rune binds the spirit to the armour itself and enables the Necromancer to control the spirit. Over time the Necromancer applies more runes to the armour to strengthen their control over the spirit.
At first the spirit has all the memories of his former life and has some measure of control, but as time goes on the spirit loses their memories till only a basic pattern remains. To ensure they won't rebel against their masters most Necromancers keep them locked away for nearly a century to break the spirit and make them easier to control. Over time the spirit comes to hate life itself and the end result is nothing more than an animated hatred of life itself. These creatures speak no understandable language but constantly emit a stream of jumbled words and phrases, the ghostly echoes of the spirit which inhabits the armour.
Though quite capable of functioning independantly, Necromancers prefer to keep these creatures close or, better still, away from danger altogether. Nevertheless, when the battle is of critical importance the Necromancers who control them will allow them to join the battle- though they will always remain under the personal guard of their master.
WS - 4
BS - 3
S - 5
T - 4
W - 2
I - 4
A - 1
LD - 9
SV - 3+
Cost - 36
Unit Size - Each unit consists of between five and ten Cauldron Born
Weapons - Each Cauldron Born carries a CCW and has Wrathbolt (counts as a Bolt Pistol)
Options - One Cauldron Born may be upgraded to an Ancient Cauldron Born at +19 points. The Ancient Cauldron Born has +1 attack and replaces its Wrathbolt with Hatescourge, which has the following profile:
Rng - 12"
Str- 8
Ap - 3
Assault 1
Special Rules:
All is Dust: Cauldron Born are, for all intents and purposes, animated suits of armour that have to be blown to pieces or hacked apart in order to disable them. Because of this only shooting attacks that have a strength of 5 or more will affect a Cauldron-Born. Note that they can be attacked in close combat normally.
Hate the Living: Cauldron-Born are fuelled by their unquenchable hatred for all who still draw breath, and the presence of living foes drives them into frenzies of destruction. For every wounding hit a Cauldron-Born unit makes, it makes an extra attack.
Strong Willed: Cauldron-Born have a greater will than normal undead, so they are less dependant upon the driving will of the Necromancers. Cauldron-Born are immune to By Your Will and always count as being able to draw LOS to the army commander.
Bodyguard: Cauldron-Born do not take up any unit slots, but nor may they be taken like normal units. Instead, you may take a single unit of Cauldron-Born as a Retinue for the army's Commander. If the Commander is a Necromagus then it cannot purchase a Wight Retinue, if the Commander is a Necromancer then the Necromancer must be deployed with the Cauldron-Born.

[Phalanx]

The ambush rules allows for deepstrike, but with the restriction that you musst deepstrike within area terrain. As for the decapitators, it was more expense for the fiend because it gets 2 attacks at s10 with it instead of one attack at s8. As such, I believe it should be at least 30 points.

As for killing blow, here, I changed the last line of it as I believe you accidentily picked the wrong word for it. Decapitators give -1 I and -1 A and ignore saves, not -1 sv. I guess you can keep the rule. I also made it so it doesn't affect monsterous creatures.

Killing Blow: Harvesters normally attack by flailing wildly in all directions, succumbing to the sheer joy of causing panic and random bloodshed. But occasionally their masters need a particular specimen in better shape, or they encounter a creature which may well prove their match unless they destroy it with a single blow. In such cases, they are capable of focusing their talents into a single, almost surgical, strike- one that usually results in their opponent being decapitated, disembowelled or severed neatly in two! A Harvester can surrender all of its normal attacks for that round to make a single special attack, which wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness. This attack automatically slays a creature wounded by it, regardless of how many wounds it has remaining. This special attack does not benefit from any special weapon rules. Does not affect monsterous creatures.

The the terrain thing, I was going off memory- I hadn't read my necron dex in at least 4 months, maybe even 6+ months. The mission idea sounds good, though. Also, I like the changes to Cauldron Born in the fluff.

[Unseen Lurker]

Okay, I fixed the Ambush entry so that it notifies that the HoD can Deep Strike, returned the Decapitator upgrades to their original points and added Killing Blow back to the Harvesters.

If you like the idea of Necromancer Scenarios, could you suggest some? Also, what do you think of those story ideas of mine?

I know we're supposed to have stopped adding to it, but here's a final upgrade for the Wights:

Death Riders: +20 points per model
These Wights are mounted on all manner of esoteric and arcane cavalry, from undead steeds to haunted motorcycles. Raiders and hit-and-runners in life, their passion for high speed now carries over into undeath. The Wights count as Cavalry and have a 6+ 'jink' save.

[Phalanx]

Hmmm... The death rider ability is probably better priced at 15 pts then 20pts.

And after checking out the cauldron born again, they should probably get 2 attacks each.

I think everything looks good, otherwise.