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This is something that started in my gaming group as more of a misconception of the rules, untill I set things straight, but there's been talk amongst us for bringing it back as a house rule.
We were playing that cover saves were taken after the "to hit" roll, then any normal armor saves taken in normal sequence.
Basicly it allows for Meqs to be able to take some advantage for cover VS small arms fire. It also makes a bit more scence in a real world view of things, as in reality, shots would have to pass through cover before they strike the target.
What do you think?
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
That's the basic idea of what I'd like to see. Cover seems to generally represent a chance of missing because the target is obscured by something. I think that cover saves should be a modifier on the to-hit roll or a "difficulty" rating of some sort that one rolls their BS against. The latter could compared to WS vs WS in close combat or S vs T when wounding. Same idea.
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It used to be that way back in 2nd ed. as I recall (I could be mistaken though). I think they got rid of it to streamline the shooting phase somewhat. If this change were to come into effect though, the point cost of heavy infantry would have to be increased to balance things out.
"It was a magnificent display of trained and disciplined valour, and its assault failed of success because dead men can advance no further"Originally Posted by rat of vengence
-refering to the Royal Newfoundland Regiment at Beaumont-Hamel after they took 90% casualties in the assault
How about this variant,
you get the cover save after to-hit rolls but only for weapons of s6 or less, that way high powered weaponry just tears through the scenery while most conventional type guns wont.
In 2nd edition save modifiers made a 3+ save far less effective than it is now and Marines needed their cover to stay alive.
Now the AP system makes Space Marines obviously superior in open warfare and it sort of makes sense that Imperial Guard are better at using cover. I do not see 8 foot tall superhumans wanting to hide in most situations, let alone being able to in a dugout made for a normal sized human.
I agree with nightshade, this is like the old rules which wer cumbersome, dont see the problem with the current rule set, if you want ultra realism, or at least more realism, play inquisitor, where you count your ammo!
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I agree with Nightshade too.
I wouldn't mind someone redoing the cover rules in a way that helps everyone, but to just give MEQ a boost isn't nessecary.
i agree the rules are better now... cover would be a bit tto good with your suggestion as it allows an extra save.. imagine trying to kill mairnes when they nare behing cover.. it would be far too hard.. atmittedly it would make more sense but the gameplay would suffer as everyone would spend the whole games hidden behind cover.. could be the end of cc as know would be prepared to charge out and sacrifice their save... keep the rule as it is.. not beacuse it makes snese but beacuse it works
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Some friends and I use the cover save as a bonus to the models own armour, with the maximum possible as a 2+ save. IE, a guardsman's save was 5+ in the open, 4+ in woods, 3+ in a house and 2+ in a bunker. It works well and unlike the 2nd edition method, doesn't slow down the game with extra dice rolls.
It doesn't cut down the amount of CC either, because the best way to clear a house is to get in it and kick the enemy out, instead of just shooting at it for a couple of turns.
We have a house rule for cover that also doubles for LOS arguments.
We use a laser pen/pointer to check LOS and see if shots can made or not. This works if you have WYSIWYG cover as well - no proxy forests or buildings.
You take the laser pen, from a firing position within the squad and work from there. You work out how many models can fire on the targets, then you make sure the targets can be seen, and the red dot has to hit squarely on the target with no trace of red light on any cover around it.
(For those of you who don't have much experience with laser pens, if there is no direct LOS there is often a faint red light where the cover/objext hinders direct passage of the laser).
So the way we work cover saves, is by removing them completely, if there is a bead on the target it can be hit. Whether the dice allow this is another matter. Should it hit, then you make your normal armour save.
(most of the people i play against play marines, and so cover saves don't really domuch for us anyway).
By all means use this idea and ammend as necesary. For us it just made a bit more sense to play it like this, as it is a simple rule and takes the heat out of arguments before they begin.
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13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be.
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