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What about If say an race tries to concquer a water world? I could see orks, IG and Sm doing this. You could have ork kroosers with zzap/lobba or kannon guns:w00t: and IG could have some big frigites and space marines could have ships that alow your SM's board other ones etc. I'm not saying that these ships are going to be huge (like space ones) but If they were in real life they'd be as about as big as a normal warship and also so that they could have 40k dudes manning them. what do you think?
I'm sure that they would fight over water worlds, as there are undoubtedly important planets entirely covered in water (or some other liquid.) I think you've stumbled on something quite cool here, and to play something like this you could just use the rules for BFG, with some tweaks.
Good idea, lets get some comments going !
The problem with water worlds is that you're never going to have a fight there where both sides aren't equally prepared to fight there. Its not like your friend is going to come over for a friendly one-off game and you're going to say, "Well, gee Fred, I decided we're going to play on a water world. Why'd you bring Tanks instead of boats?" At least not if you want to have too many friends.
So the easiest way to do this is just have the exact same rules and if nessecary, model them as aquatic. So Ork buggy rules, but modelled as speedboats and jetskis or something.
Or you could create a bunch of scenario-specific stuff. It might be fun to make a game around the attacker landing on the deck of the defender's huge open-topped ship and trying to storm it.
@JOHIRA, dude I live on a cattle station in the northern territory of australia. Its aleast 400kms from a city/town..I don't know any body that play warhammer and if I said to "fred" that I decided to play sea wafare and he brought his tankless army, then I wouldn't give a dam however If I really wanted to play sea warfare then I would have stated in out In the simplest form possible.:yes: although what you said gives me a big more of a more mobile army.
I didived the ships in Categories.
Meant for enguging the enermy at long/medium range. Most comman ship in the feild.
The name say's all.
Last edited by dfg; May 25th, 2006 at 11:25.
You're obviously thinking of a much larger scale than 40K then. Somewhere around epic scale as battleships and aircraft carriers are generally pretty huge.
Don't forget to include rules for weather.
Additional categories I'd reccommend:
Frigates/Destroyers/Corvettes (Escort/anti submarine/scouting/surface torpedo/missle craft ect)
Land/and or space based aircraft.
Mines and/or minelaying ships.
Last edited by Grey; May 25th, 2006 at 11:58.
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If your actually going to invent ships and rules etc, I would suggest you glance over the rules for Battlefleet Gothic. Sure its in space, but it's in 2D which means that its easily adaptable to "Sea warfare." I dont actually think you would even need to modeify the rules, perhaps renaming asteroids as rocks and dust clouds as fog etc etc etc. The ships profiles are already well suited to being used in a sea context, as design wise they are a fusion of WW2 Ships and old sailing ships of the line.
BTW, if you live of a cattle station, do you ever play at all? Just curious, as I imagine its quite isolated out there....
EDIT: Grey mentioned weather, i've just sent you the Fleet Commander rulebook like you asked. Theres a whole big section in there about weather and coastal hazards, you could use those rules as they would work fine as they are.
If I played you in a game of 40k then I could be playing you for a sheep station lol. I don't mean to insulting but you don't get a chance for a joke like that often.Originally Posted by dfg
I like the idea of water worlds and I myself have always thought of inventing siege rules for 40k.
@DP Excerion. hahahahahahaha, no ofence taken. I do fancy my self as a bit of a comeian to, lol.
I'm alreadly going to add:
Mines and/or minelaying ships. good Idea thanks.
also I don't want these ships like HUGE because I want to have them fighting on land to.
Then maybe base your ships on the land transports in WW2. I could see Guard jumping down the front ramp and charging into battle.
Okay, how about these ideas:
Shallow Water (shore):
Shallow water counts as difficult terrain with no additional special rules.
Deep Water (ocean):
Open ocean (anything away from the shore) counts as difficult terrain with some additional rules.
1. Any vehicle, artillery, or bike which enters Deep water and is not a boat, skimmer, or jetbike is counted as destroyed and removed from play. Boats, skimmers, and jetbikes move as normal.
2. Boats count Deep Water as open terrain, but must make a dangerous terrain test if they enter shallow water. Boats count land as impassible terrain.
3. Beasts and Cavalry may safely enter Deep water, as the mount probably knows how to swim. However, their movement in deep water is reduced by a difficult terrain test.
4. Jump Infantry and Jet Packs may safely move over Deep Water as normal, however if they land in it they must take a difficult terrain test. It is assumed that any army which uses jump infantry will have waterproofed their equipment beforehand so they can jump as normal out of the water again.
5. Monsterous Creatures treat deep water as difficult terrain as normal.
6. Infantry treat deep water as difficult terrain. In addition, if they move in deep water they must take a difficult terrain test and move the number of inches shown on the lowest die. Units with the "move through cover" special rule may ignore this rule and treat movement in deep water like normal difficult terrain, although they are still affected by rule #7 below.
7. Deep water is often turbulent and difficult to stay put in, so all units in deep water count as moving even if they don't actually move on the table top. Thus, heavy weapons may not be fired by infantry in deep water, etc. However, all infantry units in deep water gain the benefit of cover from the churning waves or the ability to dive underwater, so all infantry in deep water gain a 5+ cover save, however they gain no initiative bonus in hand-to-hand combat.
Boats are a special class of vehicles. In addition to the exceptional movement rules covered in deep water, units can be transported by boats differently than normal vehicles. Any unit which can physically fit on the boat may be transported by it, including vehicles, bikes, artillery and cavalry. However, units may only start the game aboard a boat which is designated a transport. After the game has begun however, any boat may be boarded by a unit which can reach it- even by enemy units. Units aboard boats move, shoot, and fight close combats as normal.
While in the real world just hopping aboard a boat as an unwelcome guest is probably quite difficult, this is a game and we want it to be fun. Therefore, any unit which is in water or in a vehicle which in contact with a boat may move into the boat if their movement after taking a difficult terrain test is sufficient to reach the boat. Assume they find ladders or carry climbing hooks, or blast a hole in the hull or something. Let there be swashbuckling!
Units which are aboard boats (not transported inside them, see Adapting Armies to Naval Warfare) may be shot at if within range and line of sight, instead of the boat.
If a boat should be immobilized or destroyed during the course of the game, all units being transported by it (except for skimmers and jetbikes) must be put directly onto the table-top in as close to the same place as possible as they were on the boat. If this would put them in deep water, then units which cannot enter deep water are destroyed and units which must take a dangerous terrain test to enter difficult terrain must take a dangerous terrain test.
Adapting Armies to Naval Warfare
Armies which have skimmer vehicles as transports or tanks like Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau obviously have a major advantage in naval battles as their skimmer rules make them immune to a lot of the special water rules. Other armies which lack skimming ability don't fare so well. To compensate, all vehicles which lack the skimmer ability may be changed to a Boat for free. The boat has the same stats as the vehicle originally had, however it now has the boat special rule listed above. Vehicles which were not open-topped remain thus, however after the game has begun units may move aboard as normal. Units transported in a non-open topped vehicle may be placed inside or aboard the vehicle as you wish, however enemy units which move aboard the boat may not move inside. They must stay on the top of the boat.
Vehicles converted to boats in this manner should be converted appropriately. Ork wartracks become jetskis, Imperial Guard bassilisks become an open-topped boat with a very large gun, Space Marine Landraiders become a heavily-armored destroyer.
In addition, all infantry, bikes, artillery, cavalry, monsterous creatures, and non-skimmer/non-boat vehicles may also be transported on a special free boat which is armour 10/10/10 Open topped vehicle which should be modelled as a flatish barge large enough for the unit in question.
There's lots of room to expand all this. I suggest you use the Vehicle design rules to make boats in addition to the those covered above. To make a vehicle a boat should be a free modification, as boats are limited from moving on land.
The infantry movement rules assume they are standard infantry- perhaps trained to swim but not specialized to fight in water. Obviously we all will want to have a team of specially trained marine-combat specialists. You could come up with special rules for squads for each army, but I think an easier way is just to add an "Ocean Combat Training and gear" upgrade for infantry units (not jump infantry). This could either be a set cost (+X points per model), but I would prefer granting one or two (the same number for each army) Elites choices such an upgrade for free. "Ocean Combat Training" grants the "Move through Cover" special rule for the purposes of movement in water.
Someone else can put together rules for divers/submarines. I can't think of any way to do them without making this any more unweildy than it already is.