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I wasnt sure where to put this, so I suck it in here, mods feel free to move it to a better spot if there is one.
This is just a little project that I have been working on for a short time with my friends, who have been tired of not being able to shoot into a combat with friendlies and enemys in it. (And I know that my writing is kinda sloppy, but its late and I am currently fueled by redbull)
These rules are still a work in progress, and are open to any sort of ideas for changes or improvements.
Shooting at an assault works the same as firing at a group of enemys, only you can now hit some of yours too
Firstly, you have to see if your men have the courage to possibly kill some of their own men. Make a leadership test, with any modifiers they would normally have (fearless, bonus for wearing shiny pants, whatever), and a penalty of -2 LD. Measuring is normal, except, it doesnt matter who is in range, just the totaly number of models, friend and foe. (works the same for blast/template weapons)
Note: Any friendly unit that recieves fire from another friendly unit (doesn't matter if they take casualties or not), have a LD of -1 for remainder of the turn, and all of the next turn. (they are demoralized because they were just shot at by their own men)
Eg - There is a combat between 5 space marines, and 10 gaurdsmen. A group of space marine heavy bolter teams fire into the combat, but only 2 marines and 4 gaurdsmen are in range. Since the combat is a swirling melee, it counts as a total of 6 models in range, the number of marines and gaurdsmen hit are determined later.
Now that you have figured out the total number of models hit, you now roll to hit, and this is where the "fun" part begins.
Using a regular dice, you will determine if you hit a friendly or enemy model. For every shot, you will roll a D6 after rolling to hit normaly. On a roll of 4, 5 and 6, you hit an enemy, 1, 2 and 3, you hit a friendly unit. However, there are modifiers. Any modifier of + makes it easyer to hit an enemy (Ex, a +1 modifier makes it so a roll of 3, 4, 5 and 6 hits a enemy), and a modifier of - makes it more likely to hit a friendly unit.
Here are a list of the modifiers I have thought useful;
In the combat, the enemy outnumbers your troops by 2:1 or more, +1 (works reversly, if you outnumber the enemy by 2:1 or more, it is -1)
The model shooting has a BS of 5 or more, +1
If the enemy has a model height that is larger by one or more +1 (again, works reversly).
However, the highest (or lowest) modifier you can get is + or - 2, so no matter what, you will always hit an enemy on a 6, and a friendly on a 1.
Eg - The heavy bolter teams fire 9 shots into the combat, and 5 total shots hit. Now, each of the five shots are rolled seperatly to see if they hit a friendly or a enemy. Since the gaurdsmen outnumber the marines by 2:1, the bolters get a +1 modifier.
The rolls are as follow; 3, 2, 5, 4, and 1. That means that 3 of the shots ( the 3 hits a enemy because of the modifier) hit gaurdsmen, and 2 of the shots hit marines.
Now that you have determined how many of the shots hit friendly models, and how many hit enemy models, you now determine wounds, and casualties. This is worked out exactly like they normaly would during a shooting phase. After casualties have been determined and removed, the game then moves on to the next round (unless of course, there is more stuff to be done during your shooting phase).
Casualties suffered during this phase are then added to any more casualties that happen during the assault phase.
Eg - Now that the shooting is over, the assault between the 5 marines, and the 8 remaining gaurdsmen (they took two casualties from the heavy bolters.) begins. This phase works normaly, except the marines have -1 Ld (but that doesnt atter, since they won the combat). 3 more gaurdsmen are killed in the combat, thus bringing their total number of casualties in combat is now 5. They then make a Morale check, with a -1 Ld since they are now below 50% starting strength. If they had taken 25% or more casualties in the shooting phase, it would be a total of -2 Ld.
This is all I can think of right now, as I think of more, I shall post it. I am currently working on rules for when there are more then two units in combat, but I cannot seem to get them to work right. (and mabey next morning when my brain is fully working, I shall modify this post to make it easyer to read and follow what I am talking about)
If anyone has any help or sugestions, or if you think that this is totaly stupid, feel free to post, and help out my little project.
Last edited by Jakester; November 7th, 2006 at 06:24.
I think this should go in the rules development board.
Looks pretty good, although a bit complicated, but that can be overcome after using it a bit. I think the -2 leadership to shoot might be a little harsh - I think taking a normal leadership test, or -1 to the leadership would be best, along with other modifiers, but I don't know.
Other peoples opinion would be good! Anyway, nice work. Me and my friends have a similar house rule, except less complicated and intricate.
Although, that rule will probably have to be changed down to a -1, because I'm not testing this with that many teams. I have only managed to play test this with Space marines, Tau, IG, and Tyranid, so other teams that might have low Ld on their basic units (like tyranids) would be heavily penalized by this, where as other teams like Space Marines who have a commander with them aren't bothered as much (thus, giving the SM another advantege )
Unique units such as the Vindicare Assassin, who are capable of picking out individual models in a unit, gain a +2 to the hit modifier.
If a unit fires into a combat, and ends up destroying all of the enemies (of the friendlies) in the combat, the remaining models in the combat are allowed to make a regular consolidation move at the begining of the assault phase. This consolidation move works the same way as it normaly does (so any models with special consolidation rules, uses them).
More to come still... :yes:
As for blast and template weapons, you simply place the template/blast over the combat, count the number of models under it (and remember to use the roll of 4+ if they are only partially covered), and once you have figured out the total number of models, then you roll to see which is hit, friend or foe, using the modifiers.
Seeing as it is a 'swirling melee' why not have a roll to hit of 1 is a miss. 2-3 hit's one of your units, 4+ is a hit on the opponent?
I mean, shooting into people who 1. aren't paying attention to dodging you, and 2. are bunched together SHOULD give you a better chance to hit. Just hitting what you want can be a little difficult.
Gareth is the person I try to impress when I convert and paint.
Now, don't think that I'm slamming your idea or anything, its just that when a dice only has six outcomes, the removal of one can really hinder what can happen.
And a in-game explanation of why there will be no missing on a one, is since both sides would be very concentrated in the combat, neither side would notice the incoming barrage of fire until it has already hit.
And on a side note, the rules for multiple units it a combat being shot at are almost done (I hope).
Veyr cool rules here!! I think i may have to use these next time. I've always though it was a little lame that you cant sacrifice a unit of say 5 gaurdsmen, to tie up some chaso terminator and then hit them with a heavy weapon group, of say mortars, or lascannons? I mean it totally fits the feel of 40k, i can clearly see some imperial commisaar just ordering some unit into combat only to have them cut down with the enemy!!!
" These kroot fascinate me. I sense a changing, a capability of loving the emperor. We, the Ordo Xenos, fight the alien's hatred of the emperor, not its skin."
- Inquisitor Tiberius Extius
READ "THE EMPEROR' CLENSERS" in FLUFF
How will template weapons work?
I am interested mostly to use it in 3-way games when 2 opponents are in cc. Though the reason for not shooting into cc w/ allies doesnt really fit w/ the fluff of most armies.