Daemon Army Book rumour summary

[forumjayz]

Damm seriously only slept to make the days go faster can't wait to try all this out

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by Undead Bonzi

It depends on what you consider an average points cost for CORE troops. I consider between 6 and 9 to of average cost for your typical footslogger (which is often little more than cannon fodder/anvil units). I happened to catch some of the point costs before Kell edited his posts and the points cost for Daemon CORE troops seems more on par with Dwarf ELITE units (an army I consider to be on the upper end of medium point cost units). Thats not to say I might not be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I remember what Kell posted a while ago.

Now the difference with these daemon CORE troops is that they also happen to have abilities to match their points which makes them rather good (i.e. a daemon core unit will likely be a match for most armies ELITES). I can only speculate since I haven't seen the book yet and don't know for sure the point costs but I would say that your likely Daemon army is going to be medium to small sized lead by points heavy Hero and Lord choices. I seriously doubt your going to see daemon horde armies on the scale of Skaven, Orks or VC unless you have a Tzeench army and end up turning a lot of your opponents army into horrors...wich would be rather easy if you end up fighting low T or Ld armies (which is typically what horde armies are).

The second way you know daemons wont be a horde army is box sizes. A daemonetts box (Slannesh CORE) is 10 figs...most CORE units are sold 16+ or 20+ per box. That alone lets you know the size of your average Daemon army is gonna be pretty small.

Just my thoughts on it.

Yeah. From what I've seen on Warseer, daemon core are expensive (and all cost the same number of points). I'm really not too sure about how well they will perform. Daemonettes, for example, are supposedely s3/t3 with armour piercing and 2 attacks and mov 6 and a 5+ ward. The average unit at their points is s4/t4 with mov 4 and one attack and heavy armour/shields/hand weapons for a 3+ save. Daemonettes would have a hard time against rnf- they are only s3.

Bloodletters are pretty much daemonic Greatswords with a 5+ ward instead of a 4+ save. They only have 1 attack now.

Horrors seem worth it as they cast spells, and Plaguebearers fit the general loadout for elite infantry (minus heavy armour/shields/hand weapons, plus a 5+ ward). Daemonettes will probably be more of a flanking unit as they have high move, but they can't really hurt much of anything now.

Also, the daemon boxes have 10 just like the skeleton boxes. Ever seen a VC player only use 10 skeletons in a unit? Same price for a box, too, which is awesome.

[Undead Bonzi]

What your saying about daemon CORE troops is sort of true, but more in regards to 40K than to Fantasy. In fantasy T3 S3 CORE troops are by far more common than T4 S4, thats a statline more commonly found in an armies ELITES. I could be wrong but I think only Dwarfs, Lizards and Ogers have T4 in their CORE selection. It is ture that Daemonetts will have a harder time in head to head combat, but you have to consider the whole picture of an army to know if its strong. Ill use Slannesh units only in my arguments but keep in min that accounts for only 1/3 of the options of the Daemon Book.

CORE: T3 and S3 and a +5 armor save with a fantastic I in comparison to the more standard S3 T3 +4 with low I that most armies CORE troops get...AND remember that the Daemonetts armor save isn't affected by strength modifiers, it acts very similar to a ward save which means high S units threaten us less than others. The 2 piercing attacks in conjunction with ASF will help against more armored foes as well as lighter troops. The Daemonetts also have very good movement and daemons are "immune to pschology" I believe (on that I could be wrong). On the whole thats a VERY solid core troop.

SPECIALS: The Slannesh Fast Calvary has the best movement short of a flying unit. They have the same stats and rules as a Daemonett, yet they also have a mount with POISONED attacks. This is has the ingredients to be a very dangerous flanking unit, and used in conjunction with a frontal charge of daemonetts will likely put serious hurt on any unit they hit.

RARE: The fiends, like all the Slannesh units, is a tad frail but its insane movement, high WS and number of attacks plus its "Musk" which lessens how far an enemy unit flees makes for a very fast and hard hitting unit ment to break units in the flank or even smash war machines on the second turn.

MAGIC and HQ: All the Daemon lists are going to rely in some degree on Magic (and all the Daemon lores are devastating and highly complimentary to each armies combat tactics) The Slannesh HQs can come with a stack of impressive CC, Magic and Psychological effects which will ensure that when your frail daemonetts hit the enemy unit, that enemy unit will already be weakened and primed for breaking.

I agree that individually many of the Daemon units seemed overpriced for what they can do...but at the same time you have to consider the synergy GW seems to have built into this army book. I think that a cohesive Daemon army on the table is going to be something to really fear, with a wide choice of speed, strength, toughness and magic to blend together.8Y

[bubbathebrute]

So let me get this straight.

they are taking away the use of daemons in HoC and BoC?

HoC and BoC are then going to be using the spells from the new daemons?

If I want to play a tzeetch HoC or BoC I am going to need to buy the daemon book for the 6th spell just for the use of horros?


...lame if true

[Undead Bonzi]

No, HoC is getting updated later this year. At that time the rules for their daemons will be updated to be in synch with DoC. DoC is a stand alone army book, Beasts and Hordes will still retain their own daemons for their armies. However, untill HoC is updated there will be two different sets of rules for daemons...one used by DoC and one used by HoC (so for a few months HoC daemons are going to be really outclassed, but after the new HoC everything will be fine).

[Archnomad]

I disagree with Daemonettes being bad against RnF. A unit of 12 Daemonettes that hits a flank will, with its 13 attacks, most likely break it. Especially seeing as, if Phantasmagoria is up the enemy may well fail its fear test. But i see Slaanesh playing similarly to Woodies when it comes to combat. Hit a unit with everything at once, and break it into oblivion. Then move onto the next one.

Jared, can you have a level 2 Mage for Slaaneshi heroes? Or am i going to be stuck at 6 Magic levels (2 heralds and a KOS)?

Also, what does The Masque do in fantasy?

Thanks

Archy

[Jared van Kell]

These are the answers to your questions Archnomad. 8Y

A Herald of Slaanesh can only be upgraded to a level 1 spellcaster.

Masque
10 7 0 4 3 2 7 5 8

armor piercing , may not join units, 3+ Ward save,

Eternal Dance: at the start of the controlling players magic phases the masque must choose one dance to perform. These abilities target one enemy unit (which may be in combat). have a range of 12" and do not require line of sight.

Dance of Dreaming: target unit reduces is LD by D3 to a minimum of 2. lasts until the end of the next player turn.

Chanson of Caging: target unit reduces its move by D3 to a minimum of 1. lasts until the end of the next player turn.

JvK :happy:

[Archnomad]

Originally Posted by Jared van Kell

These are the answers to your questions Archnomad. 8Y

A Herald of Slaanesh can only be upgraded to a level 1 spellcaster.

Masque
10 7 0 4 3 2 7 5 8

armor piercing , may not join units, 3+ Ward save,

Eternal Dance: at the start of the controlling players magic phases the masque must choose one dance to perform. These abilities target one enemy unit (which may be in combat). have a range of 12" and do not require line of sight.

Dance of Dreaming: target unit reduces is LD by D3 to a minimum of 2. lasts until the end of the next player turn.

Chanson of Caging: target unit reduces its move by D3 to a minimum of 1. lasts until the end of the next player turn.

JvK :happy:

Now that makes things interesting....

Rep!

Ok, any memories on mounted nettes?

Also, can you go into more detail on the KoS?

Thanks

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by Undead Bonzi

What your saying about daemon CORE troops is sort of true, but more in regards to 40K than to Fantasy. In fantasy T3 S3 CORE troops are by far more common than T4 S4, thats a statline more commonly found in an armies ELITES. I could be wrong but I think only Dwarfs, Lizards and Ogers have T4 in their CORE selection. It is ture that Daemonetts will have a harder time in head to head combat, but you have to consider the whole picture of an army to know if its strong. Ill use Slannesh units only in my arguments but keep in min that accounts for only 1/3 of the options of the Daemon Book.

CORE: T3 and S3 and a +5 armor save with a fantastic I in comparison to the more standard S3 T3 +4 with low I that most armies CORE troops get...AND remember that the Daemonetts armor save isn't affected by strength modifiers, it acts very similar to a ward save which means high S units threaten us less than others. The 2 piercing attacks in conjunction with ASF will help against more armored foes as well as lighter troops. The Daemonetts also have very good movement and daemons are "immune to pschology" I believe (on that I could be wrong). On the whole thats a VERY solid core troop.

SPECIALS: The Slannesh Fast Calvary has the best movement short of a flying unit. They have the same stats and rules as a Daemonett, yet they also have a mount with POISONED attacks. This is has the ingredients to be a very dangerous flanking unit, and used in conjunction with a frontal charge of daemonetts will likely put serious hurt on any unit they hit.

RARE: The fiends, like all the Slannesh units, is a tad frail but its insane movement, high WS and number of attacks plus its "Musk" which lessens how far an enemy unit flees makes for a very fast and hard hitting unit ment to break units in the flank or even smash war machines on the second turn.

MAGIC and HQ: All the Daemon lists are going to rely in some degree on Magic (and all the Daemon lores are devastating and highly complimentary to each armies combat tactics) The Slannesh HQs can come with a stack of impressive CC, Magic and Psychological effects which will ensure that when your frail daemonetts hit the enemy unit, that enemy unit will already be weakened and primed for breaking.

I agree that individually many of the Daemon units seemed overpriced for what they can do...but at the same time you have to consider the synergy GW seems to have built into this army book. I think that a cohesive Daemon army on the table is going to be something to really fear, with a wide choice of speed, strength, toughness and magic to blend together.8Y

I have no problem with the rare or special choices. They seem fine. My problems are only with the core.

The problem here is you're comparing the daemon core to normal core, when they are priced as elite troops. For the same price as a daemonette, I could get a grave guard (which I based my standard elite off of stat-wise). I'm just of the opinion that daemonettes should have stayed s4 (though I'm thinking they made them s3 to differentiate between them and fiends). Then again, they are pretty much a flanking unit- they will get crushed by most things if you attack the front. I just don't see you getting enough bang for your buck here, especially since it seems they no longer give -1 ld to opponents in cc.

[Jared van Kell]

This is true with regards to the points cost for the core daemons. Stats, rules and ability wise the daemons in the new book are equal to many of the special choices in other armies such as Empire and High Elves. Daemons are an elite army they are chaos they are suposed to be good at what they do even the lesser daemons.

JvK :happy: