Daemon Army Book rumour summary

[forumjayz]

well i just bought some flamers and 10 horrors i just hope the plastics won't be to differrent so i can't use them together. And the in a couple of months are we talking about June or August or earlier????

[Phalanx]

I just read most of the book. GW is definately pushing the special character Heralds- with the exception of the Khorne one, they're all within 20 points of the normal Herald, with the Masque being the same price as a HoS.

Personally I think gutting the magic out of the Daemon's list was a bad move on GW's part. Nurgle can work easily on level 1s with their cheap spells, but with Slannesh, most of their spells have a high casting cost. Then again, as they can only cast one spell a turn, that doesn't matter so much... But then you also have to realise your paying nearly as much as a WE High Born for your hero choice. I also don't like that Daemon Princes max out at level 2.

The daemonic upgrades are interesting. Many of the more interesting ones are quite expensive, but thats to be assumed, but you still have to wonder if its worth it. Would you pay more points than a lord choice level 3 wizard for a level 1 wizard with 6 s4 armour piercing attacks and ASF?
Actually, I guess its a bit tempting, but what will probably happen is if someone makes a decently combatty character, they'll leave the magic at home. Daemon's are going to have really bad magic defence, or very expensive characters (or a lot of horrors, though they are also very expensive points-wise, though it may be fun to bring a 500 point unit just so you can cast Tzeentch Firestorm with them).

Flesh Hounds of Khorne seem pretty good for their cost, and Kharnak (sp?) gets an additional +2 attacks over a normal flesh hound, and gets bonuses against one foe.

I think the rare choices are all good looking. Fiends of Slannesh cost as many points as a troll, but they have massive movement, 3 wounds, and 4 attacks. Bloodcrushers may be a bit overcosted at 2 wounds at over 5x the cost of a bloodletter, but they do get 2 s6 KB attacks and 2 s5 kb attacks and a 4+ save IIRC.

Overall, I'm not quite sure how well the army will do (I hate that there are no undivided choices except for Daemon Princes), but it definately seems interesting, though things aren't looking too good from a 2 second look, at least from a mono-god point of veiw. If you want your army to be "mono" god, then you better get working converting units to count as something else.

[forumjayz]

well doubt that is nececary a full one god army stillis viable and noone will call cheese at you plus i like the fluff for single armies. I just doens't make sense using other gods with each other.

[Jared van Kell]

Why ever not?
The units of the different gods are generally good at different things but a only good at that so a mono god army will have weaknesses that a balanced enemy can exploit.
By combining the strengths of the different daemon units in support of each other you can create a very powerful list that can hold its own against all comers.
I know this because I have read the book and helped to demonstrate how effective the list can be both with mono-god and mixed armies. Of all the lists the most powerful was the mixed army.

JvK :happy:

[forumjayz]

well tbh is just like the look and feel of a single god army an army like tzeentch has a shortage of cc possibilties. slaanesh allthough they have one of the strongest magic will lack i fire power and thoughness, nurgel will lack speed and khorne lack any real firepower. Those things make for balanced lists combining the 2 will result in enormous powerplay actions and if i recall correctly denies you acces to the greater deamons which in my opnion are amazing. just my 2 cents

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by Jared van Kell

Why ever not?
The units of the different gods are generally good at different things but a only good at that so a mono god army will have weaknesses that a balanced enemy can exploit.
By combining the strengths of the different daemon units in support of each other you can create a very powerful list that can hold its own against all comers.
I know this because I have read the book and helped to demonstrate how effective the list can be both with mono-god and mixed armies. Of all the lists the most powerful was the mixed army.

JvK :happy:

Yeah, while it does seem like you can make semi-viable mono-god armies, it just annoys me how much they changed a lot of the old daemon background and stuff and for the most part seems to force you to take units of gods that used to oppose eachother. I mean, why are the chaos gods all lovey dovey with eachother all of a sudden? Slanneshi daemons working under a bloodthirster? Plaguebearers and horrors working side by side under a keeper of secrets? WTF?

I just think they should have made some sort of rule that reward people for taking a mono-army as opposed to armies which make no sense fluff-wise. I mean, why would a herald of Tzeentch be leading a mass of non-tzeentch daemons, for example.

Really, I just wish they gave us some mono-Dark god of Chaos and Evil love rather than making everyone go into several gods (with some opposing) under a non-undivided banner in order to make a well-balanced army.

Originally Posted by forumjayz

well tbh is just like the look and feel of a single god army an army like tzeentch has a shortage of cc possibilties. slaanesh allthough they have one of the strongest magic will lack i fire power and thoughness, nurgel will lack speed and khorne lack any real firepower. Those things make for balanced lists combining the 2 will result in enormous powerplay actions and if i recall correctly denies you acces to the greater deamons which in my opnion are amazing. just my 2 cents

I can't understand what you're saying. I can't read your writing at all. From what I get is this:
- Tzeentch is bad at cc
- Slannesh has uber magic, but lacks firepower and toughness
- Nurgle lacks speed
- Khorne has no firepower
- Combining two gods means your more powerful, but you can't use greater daemons

If my interpretations are correct, then you have several things wrong.

Tzeentch is bad at CC, thats correct, but Slannesh doesn't really have amazing magic. Their lore is good, but the lack of spell casters you can get kills the idea of a Slanneshi-magic centric army-> you can't cast their most important spell unless you use a lord level wizard due to a lack of level 2s. They also lack strength, not firepower, unless you changed the definition of firepower between when you mentioned Slannesh and Khorne.

Nurgle definately lacks speed, but makes up for it in terms of strength and toughness- there are very few units harder than some of the nurgle ones, especially if you play with heralds and Epidemius.

Khorne has plenty of bang for their buck (their basic troops are essentially swordsmasters without ASF and less attacks), and considering how strong some of their units are... They also can get guys with armour saves, which is unique in the army IIRC with the exception of Daemon Princes.

Using the forces of 2 or more of the Chaos Gods definately makes your army more powerful. However, you can still use GDs if you have forces from multiple gods. There is no more" You must have an undivided general to use more than one god" rule. If I felt like it, I could use a Bloodthirster with the rest of my army being Daemonettes, fiends, and seekers. You can use whatever you want with no restrictions (which is my biggest complaint about this army).

[forumjayz]

damm that sucks well what I meant to say about slaanesh i was you jsut said their magic lore is amazing but the ability to cast them is low.

will I don't like it if you can mix and match the greater deamons aswell as the troops makes more sense if only single god armies can take the apropriated greater deamon. Damm blizzard they always wanna ruin the game they totaly killed all the cultist in 40K and now they are doing the same for Fantasy

sorry getting a bit bummed out though that rule still existed my bad on that sorry phalanx

[Executor]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Yeah, while it does seem like you can make semi-viable mono-god armies, it just annoys me how much they changed a lot of the old daemon background and stuff and for the most part seems to force you to take units of gods that used to oppose eachother. I mean, why are the chaos gods all lovey dovey with eachother all of a sudden? Slanneshi daemons working under a bloodthirster? Plaguebearers and horrors working side by side under a keeper of secrets? WTF?

It's very obvious why: because there is a limited range of models that can realistically be sold. Unlike mortal armies where you can change a few bits and the paint scheme to represent a different master, demons look distinct enough that each model type is only going to represent one god, and possibly 2 unit types for that god (a mounted and un mounted version, for example).

In order to get a balanced army with a limited range of models, you have to let players pull from all available models. Fluff is nice and all, but fluff (just like rules) is malleable and should be changed to fit the game when needed.

If GW had an unlimited budget, then I'm sure they could fully develop each individual power to be its own distinct army, but since they are interested in their bottom line, they are forced to make compromises. I'd rather have high quality models at a relatively affordable price than poor quality models, or models so expensive they drive most people away from the army or from the hobby as a whole.

[Nunizillion]

They have a fluff explination in the newest white dwarf
(not the best one but i'll leave that for you guys to decide)

basically the article (standard bearer) compared the chaos gods to the Greek pantheon; it said that chaos is one pantheon, not 4 separate ones and while they may hate each other and fight, that they are just as likely to band together to bring destruction and ruin in their name. *shrug*

I realy dont care if my all nurgle daemons will be slow, im not planing on wining tournaments with this thing, its just a game, and I play games to have fun. so all nurgle it is.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Nunizillion

basically the article (standard bearer) compared the chaos gods to the Greek pantheon; it said that chaos is one pantheon, not 4 separate ones and while they may hate each other and fight, that they are just as likely to band together to bring destruction and ruin in their name. *shrug*

Hahaha... GW destroying more fluff in favour of power lists and streamlining... whaddya know, didnt see that coming...