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This was posted up on Warseer by Sabbad. It's been confirmed by others too:
Well, I got a chance to read with my own eyes the new Chaos list today. Fortunately, I also had my current Armies Book on hand to compare with, and a handy pen and notepad to note down any changes.
Suffice to say that the rumours at the start of this thread appear to be only the tip of the iceberg in terms of lousiness…
The list contains no Cultists. No mention of them at all. In fact, there are no more Mortal units added to the very tiny number previously in HoC at all, unless you count the Giant and Hellcannon.
It’s worth adding though, that the new list removes many options for Chaos players, such as Bloodletters, Bestigors, Daemonettes, Great Unclean Ones, Shaggoths, Ogres, Horrors, Screamers, Minotaurs, Nurglings, Dragon Ogres, Bloodthirsters, Tuskgor Chariots, Keepers of Secrets, Centigors, Plaguebearers, Furies, Lords of Change, Flesh Hounds and some other stuff besides. So, you know, a lot.
First of all, the Mark of Chaos Undivided is gone.
The Marks have the same effects for Lords, Heroes, Warriors, Knights and Chariots (Daemon Princes are the sole exception). Sorry, don’t have points costs.
Khorne – Frenzy. Proper frenzy that affects mounts, not the bizarre “only exception in the whole of Warhammer” old frenzy they used to have. Dispel dice are gone (no Magic Resistance either).
Nurgle – Fear (no extra wounds)
Slaanesh – Immune to Psychology
Tzeentch – 6+ Ward Save. Sorcerers can choose from any Lores in the Warhammer rulebook.
And whilst we’re on the subject of Lores… the Lores of Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch are gone. Non-Tzeentch Sorcerers can choose from Fire, Death and Shadow. I was hoping they’d retain some level of coolness and bring back the option for Heavens (like in the old Ravening Hordes list), but alas, that would be too imaginative.
The Mark of your General has no effect upon Army Composition and units can be mixed in the army freely. Feel free to abuse the Chaos background as you see fit.
The list has three Lord options, and indeed three options for Heroes, Core, Special and Rare too. 15 options in the whole army…Christ…
No Special Characters are available at all.
Chaos Lords have the same statline as currently and, as with every character in the list bar Daemon Princes, are 10 points cheaper. Nothing much to say here except that their weapons options are preposterously expensive – 20 points for a great weapon, 15 for a halberd, extra hand weapon and flail. The award for “most amusingly and blisteringly stupid decision of the list” goes to the person who decided to make a shield cost 15 points for a Lord, when the Enchanted Shield is still available for 10…
Exalted Sorcerers are 10 points cheaper and use the Lores mentioned previously.
Both these two have access to a Chaos Dragon, which has exactly the same stats and points cost as present. Breath weapon attacks have been tweaked though – one is Strength 3, the other is Strength 2 and Armour Piercing.
Chaos Steeds are unchanged. Daemonic Mounts (which now stand in for Juggernauts, Boob-Snakes and Discs too…sigh…) have changed dramatically in line with the Daemon’s list – same cost and statline as currently, but with only one Wound, +1 Initiative and a drop in Ld (bizarrely). Characters also have the option of a Chariot for +100 points, same as normal entry except they displace one of the crew.
Daemon Princes are still in, but without Daemonic Gifts. They use up one Lord and one Hero choice, in defiance of current convention for gaming philosophy. Stats the same except they have Initiative 7 for some reason. Daemonic is out, Immune to Psychology, Stubborn, 5+ Ward Save and Magical Attacks are in (Terror, Fly and Unit Strength 3 Special Rules retained too). 50 points more expensive than they currently are. Marks as below:
Khorne – Frenzy, Magic Reistance. Think it’s MR 1, but I’m not certain, sorry.
Nurgle – Toughness 6.
Slaanesh – Always Strikes First
Tzeentch – 4+ Ward
Exalted Champions are Toughness 5. It’s a stupid decision since, combined with the points drop of 10, it makes upgrading Aspiring Champion to Exalted for +20 points an even more no-brainer choice than it is now.
Sorcerors drop 10, as do Aspiring Champions. As currently, only Aspiring Champions can be a BSB, which is the only possible reason to consider taking one (especially since they can’t ride Daemonic Steeds either). Both Champions continue the trend of ridiculously costed weaponry.
Warriors of Chaos drop to 12 points in a rare instance of Games Developer sanity. No other changes that I can tell, except that ANY unit can take a Magic Banner under 50 points (which, as you’ll see from the Magic Items section, isn’t really an advantage…) and Chosen upgrades cost +5 points a model now.
Marauders are the same except commands are more expensive, since lord knows that +10 points for +1 Attack was so game-breakingly unbalanced right now. Warhounds are unchanged, still don’t take up Core, which means you HAVE to include Marauders or Warriors on foot in your army. Why do you hate me GW?
Knights are now Special and cost 5 points less a model than before, with a Chosen upgrade now + 10 points. Any units can take Magic Banners now. I would have liked to see S4 with a very expensive option for a Lance (so, you know, people can use their old models) but what’re you gonna do.
Chariots get a large points break and cost 100 points. 2 can be taken as one Special choice (cos that’s far less unbalanced than Goblin Chariots, apparently).
Marauder Horsemen are now Special. Apparently, I must be very stupid, because to my puny intellect this seems like an incomprehensibly moronic decision. Throwing axes cost only 1 point and the option for Shields is gone. Feel free to continue buying shielded horsemen in the shops though.
Giants and Hellcannons are in, with Hellcannons taking up two Rare choices. Apparently, the team at WD decided that too much space in the article was taken up with the sheer multitudes of other units in the Chaos list to justify printing the rules for these. Which means you’ll have to buy Storm of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos to use them. Yay.
Spawn are here too, same points, same rules, except the option to customise your Spawn to make them interesting and unique is gone. Why…?
VAST numbers of Magic Items have been cut from the list, with nothing given in return. I’m going to lay off with the criticism for this mind, since it is just a get-you-by list after all (though a simple note “Don’t take Daemons with your Hordes list” and leaving it at that would have made this whole process much easier…)
The cost of Common Magic Items is constant, except the Biting Blade (5 points) and Sword of +1 Attackeyness (20 points). Amusingly, this means that for a Chaos Lord, the Sword of +1 Attack and an Enchanted Shield costs the same as a shield and additional hand weapon.
5 Magic Weapons. The Chaos Runesword is 60 points, for each wound caused by the character (in combat?) they gain one wound themselves. Chaos Daemon Sword (50 points) gives +1 WS, +1 S and +1 A, with any rolls of a one to hit attacking the character bearing it. Whip of Pleasure is down to 40 points but otherwise unchanged, Filth Mace and Axe of Khorne are the same as now.
4 Magic Armours. Chaos Runeshield, Armour of Damnation, Bane Shield and Crimson Armour of Dargan. All exactly the same as now.
2 Talismans. Crown of Everlasting Conquest (no change), Golden Eye of Tzeentch (now 40 points). Collar of Khorne has been moved to Enchanted Items, see later.
3 Arcane Items. Staff of Change costs 70 points and no longer exhausts itself when it actually does something useful. Skull of Katam remains unchanged. There’s a new kind of Familiar, Chaos Familiar, which gives +1 Power Dice and +1 Dispel Dice for 40 points.
2 Enchanted Items. Helm of Many Eyes is still in unaltered (surprisingly, actually) and the Collar of Khorne has been moved here, costing 25 points and providing a Magic Resistance of 3.
2 Magic Banners, which since one costs 125 points makes the whole “any unit can take a Magic Banner of 50 points or less” kind of pointless. Banner of the Gods and Banner of Wrath are largely unchanged, except the Gods now has a much more useful range of 12” and the Wrath now comes with a Power Level of 5.
This is all I have noticed so far, apologies for what is a duplication of earlier posts. Any other questions, feel free to ask away, and I’ll answer as best I can.
Personaly, I dont mind any of this one bit. It is just a get-you-by list after all, and now the Hellcannon is 100% legal. As a Khorne player, kinda sucks no more free DD, but then the mark will be cheaper too from what I hear. That, and the Colar of Khorne, now with MR(3) will help a lot. Nearly everything becoming cheaper is going to be very cool.
None of those moves into special affect me one bit either, as I never took mounted armies.
Last edited by timk1111; May 9th, 2008 at 23:41.
It seems pretty craptacular. Makes me glad I hadn't started collecting any HoC yet except for a hell cannon, but I could always take that in Daemons as a Soul Grinder or call it a Daemon Prince or something.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
Suprised theres not even a metion of the zelots. They will have to have more units in the book... unless of course they dont enjoy makeing money. But it pretty much looks like Mortals took the staff of change up the bum. kinda makes getting the new WD pointless too.
No more lores for the chaos?
nows that down right silly, my nurgle isent going to be very nurgley after thats done :/
and the unquie demonic steeds are gone aswell
.. le sigh
well they cut out the difference in different gods and combined them as one,
oh GW why dont you know that people perfer customisation.
"your the sculpting tool i never had"
what a load of nurgle puke!
PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~
I wouldn't panic yet..it's just temp.
Probably for the sake of space, they got rid of the chaos lores for now, so we just use the BRB in the mean time. Personaly, I think Tzeentch wizrds choosing from any lore sounds like a good deal for now. Metal, Heavens, even lore of Life for some good anti shooting spells becomes available! Not bad.
No +1 wound for nurgle chars kinda sux for the time being tho. That was the only real reason to take it...But fear aint all bad either, and from what I hear, it's going way down in points, which is good.
My biggest gripe with this is the nerfing of the Chaos Dragons breath attack...then they didn't even make it cheaper. How annoying.Speaking of such, I wonder if my Dragon lord of Khorne is still viable...
I've had a look at a print out of it too. I'm sure i read Khorne units have magic resistane 1
But anyway this looks pretty bad at the moment. I wanted to do a Khorne army, but it looks like the only way i'm gonna get to use a decent list would be to have a Daemons list although i hate the new bloodletter models so i'd have to have slaanesh daemonettes. I don't like this mixing of gods so this is causing me problems.
To be honest i this is probably the WD we're gonna see, or very similiar. But the proper army book will be far better, to match even the power of the new daemons, which are tough as.
Do non-sorcerers with the Mark Of Tzeentch still become spellslingers?
And which WD is it going to be in? Because I need to get it and then decide whether or not to pretend I didnt.
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940
By the looks of this, Tz heros don't become spell slingers, you have to take Sorcerers for that. It'll balance out, since you wont be paying 140 for the Mark anymore, but won't have a Lord and level 4 mage combined....yeah, does suck. I wonder how they'de do it in Novemeber? Given what the new daemons can do with magic, it's hard to tell.....we can only wait.