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I'm not sure if this has been seen yet, I didn't see it among the other topics here. It appears that they're taking away the idiotic "keep enemy in combat if they fall back in combat and you overrun (read: make ld suck in CC)" Here's the most important change that I could find, found after heading number 6 (3/4 of the way down or so): If the defeated unit in close combat falls back, you can use Sweeping Advance. Both players roll 2D6 (3D6 for bikes/jetpacks/fast buggers). If the victorious unit's roll outdistances that of the defeated unit's roll, then they get a free round of attacks that automatically hit, but only count attacks given in their basic profile (no extra for CCW or similar). Either way, the defeated unit runs their 2D6/3D6 distance, while the victorious unit may consolidate as per earlier Assault Rules. Sounds like a good compromise between the insane wipeouts of 3rd Ed. and drawn out close combats of TAR.
Note that this is from the official GW site, so you're not getting BSed ^^
Ed: Here's the parent page where you get to the .pdf file from, found at the bottom of the page: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/cha...ird_epistle.htm
Semper Fi!!! Emperor's Phoenix: 7/3/1
I personally think that 40k has always gone the wrong way with CC. It's the future for heavens sake. People have guns, they shoot at each other, they don't take a pistol and a sword and charge across the field, and if they do then they should take heavy casualties for it.
IMO, it would be totally fair for a unit to get a free round of shooting at a unit that charges them. It's not like a unit being charged would just sit there and take it.
It's my great wish that one day GW will get their act together and make shooting way more devastating than CC. Like most units will get to shoot twice instead of once, and that almost all units would only get one or maybe two CC attacks per round.
I guess I'm putting to much realism into it, but I think that short ranged firefights are way more in order than chainswords. I guess that since their first game was WFB, they will never be able to differentiate between playing styles for WFB and 40k.
People have guns now, and hand to hand combat still occurs on the battle field.It's the future for heavens sake. People have guns, they shoot at each other, they don't take a pistol and a sword and charge across the field, and if they do then they should take heavy casualties for it.
In the latest White Dwarf they have outlined a list of changes that are going to occur in 4th edition, and the instant wipe-out is back.
yeah, but you can miss with a gun alot easier than you can with a sword...plus swords and such, conjour up a more evocative image. Huge muscled men, standing back and shooting, dosent really seem as desperate as a huge close combat meelee were they will have a much greater advantage over their foe, than they would by simply shooting at them
plus its unavoidable, for armies such as orks and tyranids...assault needs to be there, and it needs to be devastating
Never judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes...by that time they'll be a mile away, and have no shoes
Yeah, if what you said does happen H0urg1ass, they might as well take Orks and Tyranids off the market because no one would play them because they would get decimated every game. Everything has to be balanced, they are doing a pretty good job of it so far.
Well, I meant tone down CC and beef up shooting. Nid's and Orks could still be good at CC, but they would also be better at shooting like the rest of the armies. Right now, almost every army in the game stands a better chance of wiping out a unit of warriors by charging them than by shooting them.
I'll live with the rules and play by them, but deep down I will always think CC in 40k is too important and shooting is like a secondary ability. I'm in the army and I'll tell you right now, if you give 100 guys pistols and swords and have them charge ten of my boys, then they will all die before they get to us. Especially if they are charging a fortified position.
Case in Point: Yesterday we took a company out to the MOUT (Military Urban Assault Training) site. Me and about 14 other guys and gals were the OPFOR (Opposition Forces. Read: Bad Guys) We had that company of about 150 soldiers attempt to take control of two buildings that we were in.
We were all using MILES gear (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System. Read: Laser Tag) that beeps real loud when you get "shot". We held those two buildings safe until we had fired every single round of ammunition given to us and not ONE person broke into our buildings until then. We had 6 casualties (No I was not one of them) and they had over 100. So yes, the gun is mightier than the pistol and chainsword.
However, 40k IS just a game so I'll just have fun with what they give us despite whether I think some points are kinda weird. I guess that since I like shooting so much, that must be reason my first army was Imperial Guard.
40K is unrealistic to the core. But the models and drawings look good, so it's okay.
I agree that the balance is wrong when assault is more powerful than shooting, shooting and assaulting should be almost equally good, with shooting being a little bit better than close combat. It should still be possible to win against an all shooty army with an all assaulty army though! A way of making this possible would be to tone down the standard troops' closecombat abilities, but let the elite assault troops be just as good.
How about making the +1A on the turn you assault a special rule named Close Combat Fighters), reserved to elite assault troops(assault marines, berzerkers, skarboyz, striking scorpions etc.)?
Maybe the Orks, Tyranids, blood angels and world eaters could have the rule on all their troops..
Ave Dominus Nox!
How about making the +1A on the turn you assault a special rule named Close Combat Fighters), reserved to elite assault troops(assault marines, berzerkers, skarboyz, striking scorpions etc.)?Yep, these are exactly the changes that I would like to see in the CC rules. Yes, I do agree that some armies are just designed for CC, and therefore should be better at it. Nid's would just need some sort of special rules to make them better protected against better shooting.Maybe the Orks, Tyranids, blood angels and world eaters could have the rule on all their troops..
But, to repeat myself, I think the game is great, the models are really astounding compared to other games, and for the most part the rules are pretty good and balanced.
They are trying to beef up the shooting phase a bit. One of the GW development team (buggered if I can remember who and where, I think it was some games day) has said that they want to introduce a lot of close quarters firefights hence changing the rapid fire rules, and making it so you cannot charge if you do shoot.
Also changing it so vehicles can fire as many strength 6 or below weapons (they count as 'defensive' weapons) as you want when you move up to 6 inches.
Yep the game is great.But, to repeat myself, I think the game is great, the models are really astounding compared to other games, and for the most part the rules are pretty good and balanced.
With the new rules, now available on gamesworkshop.com, the bolter gets mightier than ever. Move and fire two shots at 12"...
The new rapid fire rules might have the effect that shooty troops will move backwards away from the assault troops while they shoot, making it impossible to assault before they've reached the end of the table, unless they've got a transport. The transports have been made a lot weaker, so that should also contribute to make close combat less effective.
Seems the new rules makes the closecombat fighting more deadly than before, while it's a lot harder to acctually GET INTO closecombat. Unless you have a bike or jump pack.. Finally more of those cool models will turn up on the table!
Ave Dominus Nox!