Saw the new codex r.i.p. Wargear

[THELuc]

face it guys the new vets plus relic blades oh and the thunderfire cannon useless
rules tied to named characters ( just to sell those minis ) just crap

SM sunk down to a point is silly, less crap to manage i don't think since there a load of new unit as useless as the wargear was plus changing the land raider transport capacity is idiotic... a land raider is a land raider so why change it ( hello confusion ) why not let us choose the land raider weapon load just by options with point cost.

new land speeder ( an ez conversion ) is only to sell

the new dready could just been option to the current one

with chaos dex they went overkill, daemon done in a rush and really not inspired at all ( wanting to sell fantasy minis in 40k ), orks has units just plain useless ( which is half of the dex ) and now SM codex is just overboard.... bye bye balance

i already know that the old dex will remain better, it will be a joy to re-write that mess thats coming up

GW is way to minded to make money and lost focus but they done okay with a few stuff
- assault on black reach box is fantastic even if is not balanced and not legal rulewise
- drop pod mini... better late than never
- new 5th ed rule set is better
- scout bikes
- the new eldar codex is decent
- new eldar minis looks are great ( war walker comes in mind )
- the re-do of orks minis are really great
- firing a guy who was only doing a mess all the time he written a book
( at least he done one good book and was a novel )

so in the end not so bright

[Aracor]

Originally Posted by THELuc

face it guys the new vets plus relic blades oh and the thunderfire cannon useless
rules tied to named characters ( just to sell those minis ) just crap

SM sunk down to a point is silly, less crap to manage i don't think since there a load of new unit as useless as the wargear was plus changing the land raider transport capacity is idiotic... a land raider is a land raider so why change it ( hello confusion ) why not let us choose the land raider weapon load just by options with point cost.

new land speeder ( an ez conversion ) is only to sell

the new dready could just been option to the current one

with chaos dex they went overkill, daemon done in a rush and really not inspired at all ( wanting to sell fantasy minis in 40k ), orks has units just plain useless ( which is half of the dex ) and now SM codex is just overboard.... bye bye balance

i already know that the old dex will remain better, it will be a joy to re-write that mess thats coming up

GW is way to minded to make money and lost focus but they done okay with a few stuff
- assault on black reach box is fantastic even if is not balanced and not legal rulewise
- drop pod mini... better late than never
- new 5th ed rule set is better
- scout bikes
- the new eldar codex is decent
- new eldar minis looks are great ( war walker comes in mind )
- the re-do of orks minis are really great
- firing a guy who was only doing a mess all the time he written a book
( at least he done one good book and was a novel )

so in the end not so bright

I'm very confused by some of these statements. The daemons in the chaos codex weren't done in a 'rush', they were intended as non-aligned daemons. Personally I think both the chaos and the ork codex are very well done.

Which units in the ork codex would you consider useless? I've been able to come up with multiple uses for nearly anything there. How is the assault on black reach box not legal? I'd agree it's a bit of an uphill fight for the orks having to deal with the dreadnaught, but I don't see any legality problems with it.

Overall, I think 5th edition is a turn for the better. I just wish my personal favorite armies would get a codex update sooner rather than later. Figures my favorite armies are the ones with some of the oldest codexes in existence.

[Uklar Da Rippa]

I agree with a previous poster on the special character push. Newest WD has an ultramarine army at 1750 points with 4 special charcters? WTF? Herohammer here we come. Good job writing the book, like the DE/VC fantasy Herofest.

"Of my high horse"

[Phalanx]

I would love to face a marine army with 4 special characters... IIRC, the HQ ones are all around 200 pts and the other two are both around 50+pts. That would mean there's essentailly a min of 500-600pts of enemies tied up in 4 models (albiet one is a tank). Thats nearly a third of their army- the tank would be easy enough to stop (unless its a land raider), a single BS6 scout weapon shot isn't really worth much, and with the exception of Calgar and Lysander, the SCs can still be one shotted and they're targettable if they want to be able to attack.

Its hardly hero hammer- none of the SCs can take units by themselves (except for maybe Calgar and Vulkan).

[THELuc]

if you are confused, it is clear you didn't think of all aspect of the game as a whole, wargaming is about collecting , modelling and playing and of course you pnly thought of the last part.

the daemons codex lack choice and is tied to special characters doing your own Herald is limited and a themed army ( like undivided only ) is only possible with the big 4 plus daemons without ancient enemies is unfluffy and it is the fluff that makes the difference, without it they are just minis with a expensive price tag.

for the orks the useless units are clearly outclass by other units with lower point cost and more effective units.

HQ- all special Chars are not worth their point, can get way more boyz just by doing my own warboss so generic entries for HQ section are still the best

Elite- Nobz are so flexible that why take somthing else, no reallyburna boyz.. bha better off with nobz even fewer in number but real heavy hitters

Troops- boyz boys and more boyz.. they are scoring and even pack big shootas or rokitt launchas.....ok grot are still a good meat shield but with the point drop for boys why bother with grots

fast attack- face it nothing better than those storm boys, infantry has way more chance to survive that all those fragile vehicles in the fast attack entry plus they got furious charge.

Heavy support- first tree entrie are good.. battle wagon, deff dread and killa kans the rest not viable

so heres the reasons why half of the dex baloney, if you find some other good stuff well guess that you are not a cheesae player but the win/lose ratio must be affected too.

assault on black reach is not legal as marine have only one troop choice ( the game ask for two ) and has more that 100pts more in pont value that the ork.. to make it legal you have modify the space marine squad as two 5men squad without special or heavy weapon and add 100pts for the orks...

chaos codex.. you like it.. good for you but reading the fluff and you will see, plus tell that it is a fantastic codex to all those night lords, iron warriors and other legion players, heck even the world eaters lost their axes.

5th ed so far basic rule set is better than ever ( even if would need some tweaks here and there so it plays faster ) but the codexes are a mess ( heck why give us an old chaos dex like back in 1996 )

by having all those armies i know what i'm talking about

[kithre]

Erm, as far as I remember very few boxed sets have ever had "equal points" - 4th edition Warhammer didn't, it had 40 Elves and 64 goblins, but those 40 Elves were way more poitns, also factoring in the "cardboard" models for the wyvern, Eltahrion, bolt thrower and stone chukka.

The new 40K box is legal for the scenario in teh game, so what if teh points values are not equal? It's a "learning" pack..

As for fluff and rules - yes the new demons codex is a little light with regards the older Realms of Chaos stuff, after all, in those rules demons were affected by magic weapons, there were demon slayer swords aplenty, and demon units aligned to one power couldn't sit anywhere near those of another power, it would cause significant requirement for Animosity tests. Perhaps they should have kept animosity in the rules for demons? Maybe..but the new models are fantastic, there is as much variety of demons now as there used to be many moons ago (possible more now with the Heralds)

Khorne as 4 demon classes (BT, BL, Jugger and Flesh Hound), Tzeentch has 5 classes (LoC, Horror, Flamer, Disc and Screamer), Slaneesh has 4 classes (KoS, Daemonette, Steed, Fiend) and Nurgle has 4 variants also (GUO, PB, Beast, Nurgling). Finally, there are the Furies, which are new to the demons list, relative to the other ones.

This is 20 distinct units, some used in combination with others, or as mounts etc. There are very few armies with as large a selection of different troops choices.
Compare the High Elf army with demons. High Elves have 3 core choices, demons have 4. High Elves, disregarding special characters, has 2 lord choices, and 3 heroes choices, vs the 4 + 4 for demons. Special chocies are a little different, as most effective HE troops reside in this section. And to be frank, just as Juggers are Blood letters sitting on Juggernauts of Khorne, Silver Helms are just Elves sittting on Elven Steeds....so lack of variety isn't a major issue.

As to the rest of the points, I don;t have sufficient knowledge to comment, I'm afraid.

[The_Outsider]

Originally Posted by THELuc

Nothing is viable!

Can I just say, that most of what you said is utter rubbish. The only thing you got right was the lackluster performance of gretchin.The rest of the mentioned units work very well in an ork army depensding on how it is built (which applies to every unit ever), burna boyz are really, really good at dealing with power armour without having to rely on powerklaws.Gretchin are the closest thing orks have to a poor unit, hence why the codex is held in such high regard.If you want an army with truly useless options, go play DE.[edit] FFS LO, save my paragraphs!

[Tossy]

Originally Posted by THELuc

for the orks the useless units are clearly outclass by other units with lower point cost and more effective units.

HQ- all special Chars are not worth their point, can get way more boyz just by doing my own warboss so generic entries for HQ section are still the best

Elite- Nobz are so flexible that why take somthing else, no reallyburna boyz.. bha better off with nobz even fewer in number but real heavy hitters

Troops- boyz boys and more boyz.. they are scoring and even pack big shootas or rokitt launchas.....ok grot are still a good meat shield but with the point drop for boys why bother with grots

fast attack- face it nothing better than those storm boys, infantry has way more chance to survive that all those fragile vehicles in the fast attack entry plus they got furious charge.

Heavy support- first tree entrie are good.. battle wagon, deff dread and killa kans the rest not viable

so heres the reasons why half of the dex baloney, if you find some other good stuff well guess that you are not a cheesae player but the win/lose ratio must be affected too.

woah nelly... have you ever played orks, or know how to use them?

I should take this apart bit by bit.

Special Chars in a codex are for fluff purposes, but the orky ones are far from useless. here's two examples

HQ:
Ghaz is fantastic, auto WAAAGGHHH to begin with and his CC ability is incredible
Mad Doc Grotsnik- cybog bodies on every part of your army and FnP, put him with some nobs (or biker nobs) and take some meganobs with cyborg bodies... ouch

elites:
have you seen the pain that lootaz bring, or the pure ability shooting or CC (or my fav a combination of the 2) of burnaz, or even the tactical advantage of kommandos with snikrot. sure biker nobz or just nobz with PK's are great but are far from the be all end all of what you should/could take

Troops:
ok grots are far from uselss, they are usually forgotten and can take objectives. look they proboly arn't as good as boyz but they never were, nor ment to be. they are meat shield or forgotten little runtz who take objectives.
and your comment about how take lots of boys and you will win, DUH! we have 2 troop choices. and on top of that the green tide gets messed up, epecially in Dawn of War mission. Speed is where it is at, but no point in argueing, i play horde, but only because i like to see 120 orks on the table

FA:
wow, you have no imagination. Scouting outflanking deff coptas are just plain great. take 3 war buggies with rokkits for a nominal point cost can do real damage to an enemy and soak up some fire, i find it invaluable. actually i think the only thing that is near useless in stormboyz. sure they are quick, but we have run and WAAGGHH, and if you have ghaz, they are uselsss

HS:
ok, you are proboly right, flash gitz are useless

[Zemaphore]

This line of no armoury, which was started with the eldar codex, is actually good, imo, it's much clearer what options are allowd, without an armoury full of little stars, numbers and whatnot to denote who could take what. To me it's a breath of fresh air and allows for much more fluff and stuff like that too be packed into the codei.

The Armoury is dead, long life smart codex design!

[omegoku]

When I first saw the no armoury codex I was displeased by them.
Now I have grown to realise they are superior.
There was no loss in quality, and most options are still available, to some degree.

Orks, Eldar, the new Chaos, new Marine. All these books are superior to the one that came before. (quiet you Iron Warrior cheaters, you don't see Alpha Legion crying!)

Sure I miss Master crafted power fist, or terminator Honours on my characters. But in the end, I just use those points to bring a few more marines and I fare better.

Stop living in the past, embrace the new superior builds and be glad you don't play Dark Angels