Saw the new codex r.i.p. Wargear

[distortiondave]

Amen to omegoku.

The lack of an armoury is such a small loss it's not worth worrying about.
What did you take on your captains? Bolt pistol, power weapon, frag and krak grenades, iron halo, terminator honours? Okay, so you lost terminator honours, but you gained +1WS and +1W.
Last codex that cost 119, this codex it costs 115.

However, now Storm Shields give a better invulnerable save for less points than an Iron Halo was.
Single lightning claws are cheaper. You can re-roll wounds for cheaper than master crafting weapons. Cheaper artificer armour.

As far as I can tell it's only really librarians who have lost out - they can't take a halo, mantle or familiar.

What else did marine players use? Auspex? Purity seals?

Its not that big a loss, honestly. In fact the options for a captain now are far superior than in the previous dex by some distance.

[Hex]

Horde armies get the up in the new edition, and I've always thought that it's better to have more units over ones with lots of upgrades. Annoying if you've modelled minis otherwise but thats also the way GW want to take it, because it brings in more money (probably)

Hex

[THELuc]

well tossy all of those points you giving are good but for all those pointed out you needed a situation, a mission or even a specific opponent which i didn't had to point out as they are good in all situations.

and yes horde armies are the new trend as GW wants us to spend every penny possible.
long live plasticard..

[distortiondave]

Whats that? A business wanting its customers to buy things from them? Whatever next...

GW is not a charity and neither do they owe anybody anything. The thing with people is that they expect something for nothing if they have a long service medal - I've been playing this game for 16 years, I don't expect GW to operate any differently to appease me. My reward for playing this game all these years is 16 years of enjoyment - once you stop enjoying something you have to stop playing, not keep going out of some misguided sense of loyalty. It's a business.
The same can be said for football matches - it's now £25 a ticket to watch my local football side. My first adult ticket 10 years ago was £4. I don't kick up a stink about it because I want to carry on watching my team and I pay the going rate. It doesn't represent value for money, not at all - in fact that £25 a week could be better spent on GW for all sorts of reasons - but I enjoy it.

Once I stop enjoying it I'll stop going. I won't carry on going then tell everyone how much I hate going, despite willingly paying over the odds. It doesn't make sense. If you don't like GW, theluc, stop playing. Or keep playing but deal it with it. If you've been playing a long time you will no doubt have at least one complete army and you can go through the rest of your life without having ever to buy another GW product if you wish.

Price hikes suck, and I'm sorry you feel so much ire towards GW.

[THELuc]

that was a statement i already knew, and been in the hobby for longer than you also i'm aware of the price tickets for sporting event, shows or any other event for that matter.

the game is great ( basic rule base is ) and don't worry been heck of a while i didn't pay for GW stuff, i just platicard built tanks and sculpt my own minis out of green stuff

loyalty where did you see that, GW don't give a damn bout the community. they do as they please and thats it

still enjoy playing the old codex with new base rules ( and my own codex ) just that, yes i hate GW and yes i like the games they done

don't be sorry i'll play without paying.. also the when i walk in a game shop i'm stuck with same opponents over and over, in fact same armies, same lists but different colors and owner that without saying stuck with some bland, unfluffy codexs, so i play mostly with pals at home.

[Leech]

Originally Posted by Zemaphore

This line of no armoury, which was started with the eldar codex, is actually good, imo, it's much clearer what options are allowd, without an armoury full of little stars, numbers and whatnot to denote who could take what. To me it's a breath of fresh air and allows for much more fluff and stuff like that too be packed into the codei.

The Armoury is dead, long life smart codex design!

I think I agree with the principle of this. Though the demise of the armoury didn't start in the Eldar codex, it started in the Tyranid one. Tyranids never had an armoury or even wargear cards in the old 2nd edition. Tyranids just a list of options for weapons and whatever upgrades on the page where their stats/rules are. Basically what people get now instead of an armoury. Tyranids are also very good if you want to cook up customised things and play about with how a unit behaves in the game. I think that it is quite possible to cook up varied folk in most codex's. Also in the CSM codex things like invunerable saves are now standard for HQ units. Invunerable saves used to eat up chunks of wargear allowance and take time to work out. Everybody wants them so that they aren't wargear but standard just saves time.

I also think that one possible reason for the armoury going bye, bye is that WYSIWYG was never really given much respect. Because of this people having been really asking to lose their armouries. I encountered endless mobs of players using models with upgrades that were not on them. I once fought a Marine captain with master crafted plasma pistol that was in his holster. Weapons must be shown and master crafted weapons must be not only shown but converted to look 'masterful'. Because it was in the holster it could be any pistol but on a Marine really should be a standard bolt pistol. I was told it's not a bolt pistol but a plasma pistol and a master crafted one at that. It is no surprise that fancy options have been scrapped.

[THELuc]

oh hell you are totally right on that one leech !!! the wysiwyg was a written rule that most skipped..my gaming pals are all ''i don't see you don't have" and now it's official

[Kai-Itza]

What if your opponent wants to try out something different with his Characters, troops and vehicles for that one game? Does he have to take apart that beautifully painted model just to re-convert it just to hold a Plasma pistol?
I'd say, as long as my opponent informs me about any changes that he'd done to any of his units, I'd say screw WYSIWYG for the sake of having a fun evening. Win or lose.

If it's a Tournament-type game, then I'd say only minimal changes not substantial ones.

Like, how many people would take their mini's apart just to replace a weapon, wargear or otherwise. Even after spending a load of hours making and painting it, only for someone to say "Oh, I don't see what you don't have..."

IMO, it's stuff like that that strips the 'fun' out of wargaming




-Kai-Itza-

[danjones87]

Originally Posted by Kai-Itza

What if your opponent wants to try out something different with his Characters, troops and vehicles for that one game? Does he have to take apart that beautifully painted model just to re-convert it just to hold a Plasma pistol?
I'd say, as long as my opponent informs me about any changes that he'd done to any of his units, I'd say screw WYSIWYG for the sake of having a fun evening. Win or lose.
-Kai-Itza-

Iagree with Leech for the main part. But I will let WYSIWIG drop if my opponant tells me at the start of the game this is whatever etc. Friendly games only.

Its good gaming practice in open list games to tell your opponant what is what at the start of the game.

Dan

[Leech]

I think with WYSWYG it is ok to have something odd in friendly games. I don't mind people using something that is a one-off conversion. If somebody wants to represent something in a strange and or original way I don't mind. I am painting a Hive tyrant with two sets of scything talons but one pair are converted so that it uses the Keeper of secrets big pincers. Because a Hive tyrant has no options for big claws like that it is easy to tell that they are just more scythingt talons as here isn't really anything else they could be.

I think problems have arisen with WYSIWYG when people are using models that aren't even remotely equiped with what they shown with. Also people deciding mid-game what the model has because it encountered a certain kind of enemy first and specific weapons were more useful. I don't mind people wanting to try something out. I don't like it if the same model in terminator armour in game after game is actually meant to be wearing power armour speeding about on an invisible bike. It just feels silly that way. There are still some odd things though. Daemon weapons are given rough descriptions if a description at all and they can be any kind of weapon wanted. They can be shown by all kinds of things and in CCSM there is an example army list where it shows the models. The Chaos lord is meant to have a daemon weapon, all he has is a terminator power weapon and he has a combi-bolter which he can't have with a daemon weapon, so go figure?