Warhammer 8.ed - 2010

[Ancalagon]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Indeed, used to... Still, find the old LO Chat logs and youll see im telling the truth

Nah, too much effort! I'll just believe you, that's easier

[Stunted_Merc]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon

Don't forget, he used to be called Deceiver!

Yeah back when I used to call him DJ Deccy D. I believe you on stuff Phoenix, I just think it's funnier to deny everything you say no matter how reasonable it may be.

-K

[CaptainSarathai]

Originally Posted by Stunted_Merc

Whoever mentioned "Decks" should rethink that idea. GW did cards before, unless you were to young or haven't researched the system. It was for common magic items, spells, and other things. It proved to be something most people disdained, and GW quickly dropped such a ridiculous gimmick from future editions.

Actually, I mentioned decks. I came into the game during that edition. They didn't drop the cards because they were hideously difficult- they dropped them because they also knocked out the rule on 'The Winds of Magic' which meant that you no longer needed the randomization that the Spell cards provided, and they figured that it would be much easier to just include all of it in the core books, and why not put the items there too?

But I see that I'll neither make headway, nor convert believers with the card system. So enough of that.

Merc, it's funny that you mention the Bandwagon and Powercreep alongside Skaven. You might be pleased to know that the Skaven are getting a new book due out this month. I'm not convicting you of 'creeping', so much as warning you that you'll have to beat other new players away from the army with a stick.

I also think that the powercreep is over, mostly. We had Orcs and Empire come out, and both were actually balanced with the non-updated books of the previous edition. Then we got hit with High Elves, who were noticeably more powerful than the other two. From there, I don't know if they tried to balance it to HighElves, if they messed up, or if they intended to raise hell, but we got slammed with:

Vampires
Daemons
Dark Elves

since then, the Warriors and Lizardmen books have been more in line with the power level that we saw in the HE book. I'm curious to see which direction they'll take the new Skaven in, and the rumored Beast book that's next in line. If they're more powerful, then I'm going to be very disappointed. If they're equal to the HE, WoC, and LM armies, then I'll be content knowing that the VC, DoC, and DE were just a fluke.

I stand by that 8th ed is still far too soon. But hey: if they push it, then we've got to learn to roll with it whether we want to or not. I'm just waiting with bated breath to see what they do to 'fix' the unbalancing elements of the VC book, and how that will effect my main army.

[Allonairre]

I don't know if they are going to be releasing a new rules set, the current one is fine really, but when they do they should write skeleton army books consisting of main points and special rules. Not to the public probably but so that they know when they write the core rules what is going to be coming.

It was clear when they first released HE that they hadn't thought through the implications of Speed of Asuryan and released contradictory FAQ's initially. Hopefully that will help to prevent the "flukes" that occured with Dark Elves and Daemons, Vampire Counts were always nasty and not really a big surprise although they are nasty.

It wouldn't surprise me if they released a new box set, but I think that releasing new core rules is unneccesary, just like it was for at the when they released 7th ed (which was really just a tweak of 6th ed).

[DavidWC09]

Originally Posted by Allonairre

It wouldn't surprise me if they released a new box set, but I think that releasing new core rules is unneccesary, just like it was for at the when they released 7th ed (which was really just a tweak of 6th ed).

That's what has me scratching my head. I do think 7th ed. solved some problems from 6th ed. and was an improvement, but I'm not sure that I see major faults now that need amendment. And I'm curious what substantive changes might be made as nothing seems terribly out of whack now. The problems that I see stem from army books much more than the core rule book.

[sirkently]

Well, first off, I don't think GW bases releases on what needs to be fixed. More of a sense of how fast they can release new rules and get the money out of it, without terribly alienating there customers.

And while I think this rule book is very good, there are some places where they could change things. I heard somewhere that they were going to make the miscast table more dangerous. And you could be able to miscast on 1 die (that would hurt VC). Might also be nice to change the overrun a bit to allow for reforms. Some hard and fast rules on terrain may be useful as well.

All I can think of for now,
SirKently

[The bearded one]

Originally Posted by sirkently

I heard somewhere that they were going to make the miscast table more dangerous. And you could be able to miscast on 1 die (that would hurt VC).

Wow, then not only their core units suck, but their vampires have an incredibly high chance of blowing up every turn :p I played against VC two days ago and his invocations went a bit badly after turn 1. when he rolled his 8 PD for invocations I just said '1' or '2' when he rolled the dice. and he rolled 1's and 2's nearly half the time xD

[Ancalagon]

Originally Posted by The bearded one

Wow, then not only their core units suck, but their vampires have an incredibly high chance of blowing up every turn :p I played against VC two days ago and his invocations went a bit badly after turn 1. when he rolled his 8 PD for invocations I just said '1' or '2' when he rolled the dice. and he rolled 1's and 2's nearly half the time xD

I don't think it would make sense to simply miscast on a roll of 1 on one die, because generally the more dice you use the greater the chance of a miscast. Miscasting with a 1 in 6 chance on one die doesn't really work with that. I think that if they were to have miscasts when a wizard only uses one die, it should be something like - if you roll a 1, you have to roll the die again, if you get another 1 then it's miscast. That's effectively the same as a miscast on two dice.

[Allonairre]

I heard similar rumours ages ago, but they were pretty close to what happened with War of the Ring, and I think people thought WOTR was going to be Warhammer.

[CaptainSarathai]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon

I don't think it would make sense to simply miscast on a roll of 1 on one die, because generally the more dice you use the greater the chance of a miscast. Miscasting with a 1 in 6 chance on one die doesn't really work with that. I think that if they were to have miscasts when a wizard only uses one die, it should be something like - if you roll a 1, you have to roll the die again, if you get another 1 then it's miscast. That's effectively the same as a miscast on two dice.

Again, it's a change that needs to be implemented within the armybook. In this case, you'll just see vampire players start to cast IoN on 2 dice. Currently, we're looking at

0% miscast
50% cast
0% i.f

2.7% miscast
88.8% cast
2.7 % cast

you'll just start to see fewer people throwing a single die at IoN. Really, against most armies, it's better to throw 2 die at it until they run out of dispel dice, then start throwing singles.
Most players don't bring maxed-out PD armies (I do) and I can tell you that having to cast IoN on 2 dice each time just means that I have a marginally greater risk, and that I'm still going to burn through all your dispel dice.

I think it would be better to see them add in some type of boost to the dispel pool. Currently, I think that the problem is that you can very easily overrun the dispel abilities of an army. Every army is capable of producing more dice in offense than it can in defense, because of the way that PD increase on a 1/1 +2, with levels, whereas DD increase only 1/2 +2 with levels, rounding up. It means that my 20PD vampires are going to smash the magic phase. I think that PD and DD should increase at the same rate. It's currently impossible to take any real magic defense, unless you go with Smith-heavy Dwarves.

So- miscasting on a single die? Not a fix. I play vampires, so I'm resistant to seeing it. However, I'm not going to cry if I do- it just makes my army more 'legit'. Maybe then they'll stop knocking my comp. score down so much!

That was a bit off topic, targeting a specific fix rather than the idea of this too-damn-early release of 8th ed, but it does prove a point.
THIS IS NOT A CASE OF POOR CORE RULES.
IT IS A CASE OF POOR ARMY RULES.