Huge collection of rumors about the new Eldar codex

[SandwichBoy]

double post

[JOHIRA]

Whinging about rules changes before you read the codex for yourself always reminds me of when Tau came out in 3rd edition, and everyone was convinced that they would be the strongest army out there because people swore their railguns could shoot through cover, etc.

Then a couple weeks into the release people started to realize they were actually quite weak.

Don't jump the gun with complaints. Just because you've only seen good things in these rumors does not mean the new Eldar will be overpowered. Frankly, I'm quite glad to have received some good news on the Eldar page for once.

[Will Forelli Machiavelli]

To add fuel to the 'nerfing' flames, Scorpions may be made str 3. There has been no mention as to whether wave serpents (and disembarking) will be fixed, the ranger disruption table will be removed and on and on and on.

Sabe, the thing is that the only way we win now is to exploit the broken elements of the list (unless you're brilliant like some Eldar generals I know) and removing those without serious boosts on other things would cause Eldar to be completely worthless. (Apart from the lovely models)

[sunnyside]

Johira. It's true premature complaining is a little silly (but it's amusing so what the heck), and thinking about the possibilities is fun.

However with Sabe there seems to be misunderstanding about the way things are, and those kind of attitudes can lead to less fun for everybody. Eldar are not overpowered especially in 4th ed. Go wander over to the GW tournament results if you don't believe me. It's still a very Space Marine world out there. Though other armies still do well now and then, eldar don't tend to do that well.

While the skill of eldar opponents you know may be what's throwing you, it's probably that Eldar tend to make anti MEQ armies and figure that the disagvantges they'd have on the off chance they end up playing Orks is just the price they pay to have a good chance against the hoards of MEQ players out there. Notice that the blingy poster ealier was complaining about a "marine melter" army, which without the starcannons would probably be a crappy army. Currently that's pretty much how we have to play. And would you seriously let a squad of banshies hoof it all the way accross the table to your battle lines without shooting them down?

It'd just be really really nice to have a lot of options against MEQ and maybe even have enough of them so that we can bring in some units dedicated to fighting other armies too. And it would be nice to not be considered an easy win army until we actually are one. In the meantime if you're tired of melting you could always try a non MEQ army. I think you'll find, for example, that fast tyranid units can close with our shuri cat troops without taking any fire at all, a gunfex will knock down those vypers nicely, and genestealers go through wraithlords like they're in some cheesy samuri anime.

[general jigger]

Originally Posted by sunnyside

Johira. It's true premature complaining is a little silly (but it's amusing so what the heck), and thinking about the possibilities is fun.

However with Sabe there seems to be misunderstanding about the way things are, and those kind of attitudes can lead to less fun for everybody. Eldar are not overpowered especially in 4th ed. Go wander over to the GW tournament results if you don't believe me. It's still a very Space Marine world out there. Though other armies still do well now and then, eldar don't tend to do that well.

While the skill of eldar opponents you know may be what's throwing you, it's probably that Eldar tend to make anti MEQ armies and figure that the disagvantges they'd have on the off chance they end up playing Orks is just the price they pay to have a good chance against the hoards of MEQ players out there. Notice that the blingy poster ealier was complaining about a "marine melter" army, which without the starcannons would probably be a crappy army. Currently that's pretty much how we have to play. And would you seriously let a squad of banshies hoof it all the way accross the table to your battle lines without shooting them down?

It'd just be really really nice to have a lot of options against MEQ and maybe even have enough of them so that we can bring in some units dedicated to fighting other armies too. And it would be nice to not be considered an easy win army until we actually are one. In the meantime if you're tired of melting you could always try a non MEQ army. I think you'll find, for example, that fast tyranid units can close with our shuri cat troops without taking any fire at all, a gunfex will knock down those vypers nicely, and genestealers go through wraithlords like they're in some cheesy samuri anime.

too true my friend too true. All too often marines feel that they are picked on because everybody seems to have some anti meq stuff in their list. But like you said, if you try a non meq list you really don't care about starcannons and the like.

[Sabe]

Well I wasn't going to post again but since everyone apparently has me wrong:

Okay, explain to me how a starcannon is somehow worse than a tac marine with a plasma cannon that can potentially hit something like 6 targets, hits on 3s and gets it for about half the points cost? It gets used a lot because when facing MEQ, it's practically all we have. Dropping it to 2 shots per turn is just retarded and a poor way to pull people away from what is a perfectly balanced weapon that gets abused because reapers are currently ass.

Not impressed.

Eldar have like 5-6 other marine beating weapons, some don't have huge range, but then again most amrine beating weapons that are in other armies don't either, so where's teh problem? A SC can hit up to 3 targets evrytime it fires. A PC can hit 1 and a partial unless your opponent has made a mistake or has deepstriked into your line of sight. Niether of which happen often. Not to mention overheating. In any acse, my beef is with the eldar army as a whole, not just SC's.

Sabe, the thing is that the only way we win now is to exploit the broken elements of the list (unless you're brilliant like some Eldar generals I know) and removing those without serious boosts on other things would cause Eldar to be completely worthless. (Apart from the lovely models)

Ever seen a necron player try to fight his way through a tournie? Ever seen a necron player win one? Believe me i've been there. I know where your coming from, except I don't actually have large broken portions of this army to exploit. I'm not blaming eldar players for playing the way they do, i'm just against giving them more mediocre-strong units whilst not really taking away those broken factors.

However with Sabe there seems to be misunderstanding about the way things are, and those kind of attitudes can lead to less fun for everybody. Eldar are not overpowered especially in 4th ed. Go wander over to the GW tournament results if you don't believe me. It's still a very Space Marine world out there. Though other armies still do well now and then, eldar don't tend to do that well.

While the skill of eldar opponents you know may be what's throwing you, it's probably that Eldar tend to make anti MEQ armies and figure that the disagvantges they'd have on the off chance they end up playing Orks is just the price they pay to have a good chance against the hoards of MEQ players out there. Notice that the blingy poster ealier was complaining about a "marine melter" army, which without the starcannons would probably be a crappy army. Currently that's pretty much how we have to play. And would you seriously let a squad of banshies hoof it all the way accross the table to your battle lines without shooting them down?

It'd just be really really nice to have a lot of options against MEQ and maybe even have enough of them so that we can bring in some units dedicated to fighting other armies too. And it would be nice to not be considered an easy win army until we actually are one. In the meantime if you're tired of melting you could always try a non MEQ army. I think you'll find, for example, that fast tyranid units can close with our shuri cat troops without taking any fire at all, a gunfex will knock down those vypers nicely, and genestealers go through wraithlords like they're in some cheesy samuri anime.

I personally have little to no problems with actually playing against eldar, but I would should a lot of those changes come through. You say that eldar armies that are tooled against MEQ's are weak against other armies but I really don't see how thats a problem...thats the way everyone else has to play. If you make your army to beat one type of opponent your goign to get beat by another, why should you be able to make a list that can thrash all opponents? Currently thats how everyone has to play, not just eldar. Eldar have every ability to make a list that can beat off nids or orks, its there choice if they decide to go strong against MEQ's. And better yet when they do decide to go the Starcannon rout their actually better of than most armies because probably 50% of opponents are MEQ's! So again I'll say that Eldar don't need to have their crappy units made usable unless they're broken units come down to a balanced unit level. And for the record I see eldar players winning or finishing high in tournies just as often as Meq players...actually I'd even say more often.

too true my friend too true. All too often marines feel that they are picked on because everybody seems to have some anti meq stuff in their list. But like you said, if you try a non meq list you really don't care about starcannons and the like.

Its not a matter of being picked on. I don't feel that the eldar have transcended to the godhood of armies yet, but I feel that they could should the rumored changes be true to at least a major extenet. As it stands they are more than capable of duking it out with anyone should their list be sufficient, just like most other armies. In fact some other armies are screwed against some opponents no matter what, so eldar are actually riding pretty good at the moment. I'm all for an update I just feel that the eldar need changes to more than just their weak units, their broken units need to be fixed too.

[Will Forelli Machiavelli]

1 thing I don't get: How can you say we have "5-6 marine beating weapons"? How on earth? We have the starcannon the Bright lance and the reaper launcher. THAT IS IT! Plus they are double or sometimes triple the cost of marine heavy weaps, we have 'NO' special weapons apart from the aspects (swooping hawks are useless at present as are spears) How can you say that?

[Librarian Augustine]

After reading this, I think I may go through with the eldar. I had only bought, 7 banshees, nine firedragons, 3 rangers and a bunch of ****ty hand-me-down gaurdians.

However these eldar sound awesome. i will be including a wraithlord and war-walkers based on the models. Falcon of course has to be included. Honestly though I can't wait for this neew dex, it sounds great. Also note how awesome the models will be.

However with my current army the dark angels rumored to be round christmas......


EDIT: WHOA! where did that censor come from?!?

[Lord Yossanrion]

Can you say "Money Laundering"?

(For legal GW products of course. ^_^)

[idinos]

Originally Posted by sunnyside

Eldar are not overpowered especially in 4th ed. Go wander over to the GW tournament results if you don't believe me. It's still a very Space Marine world out there. Though other armies still do well now and then, eldar don't tend to do that well.

I hope you are joking. You do realize that an eldar army won this year's GT (with 4th ed. rules) and roughly a quarter of armies present in the finals were eldar, right? Actually, eldar armies have won the GT two years in a row, so I don't see anything underpowered for the eldar.
I would venture so much as to say that the reason the eldar are getting a new codex is so they can get rid of the various ridiculous rules (CTM anyone?) and even more ridiculous army lists that were possible up to now. OK, some of their units and weapons were useless, I will give you that, so that will also hopefully change, but the moans of eldar being underpowered and not doing well with the current codex are just naive (or hypocritical). And the starcannons kill everything as easily as marines, be they genestealers, orks, guardsmen, other eldar, or DE warriors, last time I checked the rest of the armies weren't immune to the starcannon, so fielding a non MEQ army does not save you from a high S, low AP, 3 shot weapon, does it?