Chaos rumour Compilation

[LordLink]

New codicies are a good thing right? they update rules that got messed up with 4th ed, bring out new units and better models, they show GW is doing SOMETHING other than laughing at us.

Now I know orks and DE (and SMurfs) needed the update more but no-one can deny an update for the codex is good. So why the hatred of it? because armies are no longer playing exactly the same as they were before this is a bad thing? Because World Eaters are no longer the sole legion thats a bad thing?

More WS and Furious Charge is a lot more fluffy than blood frenzy ever was. As if berserkers had fun jumping up and down at skimmers while the loyalists mooned them. The Iron Warriors have lost exactly none of their abilities EXCEPT the loyalist options they had. Wonderful.

And yes daemons becoming generic is bad but we already know theres going to be a chaos supplement sometime in the not to distant future so that can get changed there. What you were expecting an empty book to turn up later?

Honestly guys, theres more to a new codex than new pretty pictures to look at. It actually changes things. It always changes them for the better funnily enough. Even the tau codex was an improvement (although it still sucks).

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I agree that while the loss of Wargear seems like a loss of choice, most people just go for the power options anyway. GW's just making it easier. I'm not going to say dumbing it down but... oh whoopsie, just did.

[Xiahou Dun]

So if chosen are now the only CSM unit that can infiltrate... what's going to happen to all the Alpha legion players?

This may have come up already in the earlier thread, but I didn't read it.

[Karmoon]

Originally Posted by Xiahou Dun

So if chosen are now the only CSM unit that can infiltrate... what's going to happen to all the Alpha legion players?

This may have come up already in the earlier thread, but I didn't read it.

Many of us will cry.
Some us will threaten so smash our models and abuse GW staff for some bizarre reason (I think it has something to do with the amount of monosodium glutamate consumed and also alien probes).
Most of us will be slightly annoyed and then carry on playing the game.

I know that Two Hats and myself are still up for doing an all infantry MoCU army.

Exciting times ahead

[Xerxes]

The personalisation is gone. Is there now some dæmonic forge world that churns out all the items for Chaos? Is there a single academy that a CSM must go to in order to become a dæmon prince? Have Aspiring Champions become so modest that they won't jump at the chance of a better sword during their ten thousand years of existence?

The individual flavour of Chaos appears to have died a death. That they're not even specifying specific kinds of dæmons strikes me as a bad sign.

What's more, it completely invalidates my current army, and possibly even the possibility of that army. I was hoping to run an Obliterator Cult LatD, which I now have to wait several months if not years for a new codex for, and possibly even then won't be able to do as allied Heavy Support slots aren't a common thing at all (if the armies have to ally together). Thanks for destroying a beautiful, personalisable and wide-ranging army, and making it a cookie cutter army, GW!

Oh well, Speed Freeks it is, then.

[Skorch]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

Why so much negativity?

Because i play (ed) Iron warriors :cry:

[RobtheGuru]

I want my Axe of Khorne God Dammit!

Anyway, its not that Khorne are no longer the only viable option, the fact is, every cult army was a good option apart from Tzeentch. Now look at it, Khorne and Tzeentch have swapped places, Khorne appears to be the worst now with Tzeentch taking over as the best.

[Sabe]

So was everybody who's complaining about the daemons just obvlious to those who are mentioning that the second chaos dex which includes all info on Daemons and LaTD is due out soon as well. And instead of making wild accusations of said date you should all know that a fairly reliable source has suggested april next year for it, which, considering that the 1st chaos dex isn't due out till near the end if this year, isn't too long a wait.

[NiteRabbit]

It's not that the personalisation is gone, it's just a question of trimming down options. As Karmoon previously stated, GW gave us a choice with the previous codex but it was an illusion of choice in the sense that you had all of these options but none of them were quite as points-efficient as a Power Weapon or as hacky-die-die as a Dark Blade. If people aren't going to use options because they're not good, what's the point in having them in the first place? Lord Tzeentch knows I only use a Warp Blade because I am not so big into the "winning every game" department. If I had to prepare for a serious game or a tournament (as opposed to the very relaxed games I usually play at the club) I would certainly not be selecting a Chaos Lieutenant riding on a Disc of Tzeentch with a Warp Blade and the Doombolt psychic power. Would I even be playing Thousand Sons? I'm not sure. But if I were, then I'd sure as heck be taking a Daemon Prince with Daemonic Stature and a Dreadaxe, fully tooled up for Close Combat to serve as a counter-charge unit. Now, where's the personalisation in that?

Even in the new codicies, Warhammer 40K still has more options for customisation of army leaders and individual units than most other systems I've played, including Warmachine, GW's own Lord of the Rings, Rackham's AT-43. But what GW figured out (and which has been an element of the design ethos for other companies from the start) is that the more options you give a player, the more potential there is for abuse and the more likelihood there will be of having poor options. The basic assumption was that people were into the hobby for the fluff and to have a good, fun game, not to horrifically abuse the list for the purpose of crushing their opponents into the dirt and hearing the lamentations of their women.

You might argue at this point that if this was the case, perhaps the Grand Tournaments should not have been instituted. To which I respond that in any game of skill there will always be tournaments. It's inevitable, and in a tournament you do anything you can to win, because that is what a tournament is all about. I don't begrudge tournament players their right to win, just the right of ordinary gamers in casual environments to crush their opponents' faces into the dirt and...(okay I'll stop now).

Going back to the original point, I think GW is trying to streamline their rules in order to stamp out abuses and leaving the fluff and creativity aspect in the hands of the player community. Just because you don't have diverse wargear to accurately represent your Chaos Lord, the enemy of life and destroyer of a thousand solar systems, that doesn't mean you can't make something up. You can give a supposedly "generic" power weapon a lineage of its own; it could be made of some material that could shear through the thickest armour or forged in the Hellfires of Severus Prime for all I know. The point is, it ignores armour saves. Many weapons of great lineage have been brought into this fold already in the new Dark Angels codex (notice the slow disappearance of Master-Crafting, which no one does anyway, and its replacement with Master-Crafted weapons in the hands of special characters). The other side of this is modelling - GW has already given us plenty of opportunities for personalisation in the simple fact that Daemon Weapons ignore the WYSIWYG rule. In fact, so do most things, as long as they remotely resemble their intended object and purpose.

I count myself fortunate, really, that I can even have a generic template on which to customise my very own characters, rather than having to rely on the ones that are given to me (such as in Warmachine), or use generic characters with no upgrades at all (beyond receiving a boost in stats the more points you pay for them, as in AT-43). Daemons, to my mind, are going to be handled the same way. A simple generic template for a Greater Daemon and then the god-specific traits are applied.

Everyone talks about standardisation like it's a bad thing, but it's really not. Standardisation is a method for achieving order and balance, and if it looks similar to the Space Marine codex, I'd say that it's on a very superficial level. It's like saying that Tau play like Guard. They've got more or less the same statline where it counts (BS). I could claim that Tau are glorified Guardsmen with better armour and guns, but would I be right? No. The similarities are superficial.

[AKM]

NiteRabbit, thanks for your whole summary of the situation. It's nice to see somebody who looks ahead and sees opportunities rather than complaining.

I, for one, support the trimming-down of codexes, included chaos, for 2 reasons:
1. it will make tournaments a lot better, since we won't have to deal with as many cheesy armies. Armies will tend to be more fluffy and less power-gaming oriented, since there will be less opportunities to cheese out. It will also make it simpler to understand what kind of army you face, which is currently impossible against armies like Chaos or nids, an unfair advantage they have
2. Customization will still exist. There's a nice little something called house rules!! You want new rules, or even keep using the old chaos codex? You CAN! Just play with friends, ask their opinions, and develop new rules. It's a lot of fun to do.