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This is a transcript of the Rumour Summary compiled by The Dude on Warseer. Read on and enjoy.
In an attempt to quell the hungry rumour leeches out there, and to kill some down-time at work, I have attempted to compile Apocalypse rumours.
I will further attempt to update this post with things I may (and probably have) missed.
Please ensure you read this post fully, and at least check all other posts since it was last edited before asking a question. Thank you.
Also, whilst I appreciate your praise, can we please limit it to posts that contain some more substantial discussion?
I don't want this thread to get as unwieldy as the last one
Release is rumoured to be October with pre-release on GD UK
The basic premise is Rules for games of 3000+ points
Games will reportedly not use the FOC and possibly not Points limits (although the concept of 3000+ points games seems to contradict this rumour). Some insist points are still used and that a player with fewer points than their opponent can restore balance through using extra stratagems
Some say it’s a huge book (almost if not as big as the Rulebook), others say it’s as big as Cities of Death, whilst some have mentioned the possibility of multiple editions.
The rumoured US$50 price tag indicates a single large book.
Big Red says the new Apocalypse Templates will be released Oct 07 for US$22
-10" circular blast template
-18" flamer template
-linked ordinance template (like the old 2nd edition thudd gun template, but way bigger)
-large "petal" template (this may be the same as 10" circular blast template)
An Orbital Bombardment has been mentioned as a possible stratagem and would use one of these templates (although early rumours mentioned 6 linked Ordinance templates)
Also released Oct 07 will be the mysterious (and exciting) Apocalypse Big Gun Dice for US$12
Strength “D” weapons
Some weapons will have the option of saying D (for death). Baleanoon tells us the description for Strength D reads something like:
"These weapons are so powerful that they require no dice rolling to wound, any model hit automatically dies, that’s right no armour saves, invulnerable saves, this weapon doesn't care about your dodge save or demonic powers."
Baleanoon also claims that one each of Warhound's and Stompa's weapons have Strength D.
Some rules simplifications have been hinted at, such as any weapon of S7+ ignores armour saves entirely
Super-heavy tank rules
Most say they are in the main book. Some say they could be in a future supplement.
They will supposedly work almost exactly the same way as in the Forge World books, but:
-They “tend to explode in a more spectacular fashion”
-Structure Points may get a boost to make them "almost impervious to non-titan killer weapons"
Titans such as the Warlord, Revenant and possibly others will supposedly see rules with Titan class weapons also supposedly getting a big boost in lethality. It has been suggested that models will be forthcoming, but not until plastic technology catches up with requirements (ie a LONG way off)
Some say Fliers didn’t make the cut, whilst others insist they are in the book including the Thunderhawk, the Lightning and the Valkyrie and that they now do not leave the table.
AA options like the Hydra Flack Tanks and possibly others are supposedly in the book (although if flyers aren’t, it is logical that AA will be absent too)
There have been rumours of a new Land Raider variant called the Terminus which has four sets of twin-linked lascannons
There have been rumours of ally lists; ie SM & guard, Chaos & orks etc.
Some have suggested an Eye Of Terror style Order and Disorder division.
Taking “Formations” of units could reportedly provide in-game bonuses. For example:
-Imperial Guard can supposedly field Ogryn Auxiliary Companies, consisting of 3 squads of 5 Ogryns, giving the player a free command squad, and commissars may be attached directly to the units.
-10 Leman Russ tanks earns you a command tank that helps to ignore crew shaken/stunned effects
-3 or more Necron monoliths generate a "Shadow Field" giving whatever is inside the formation +1 to we'll be back rolls. Also no psychic powers work within the field.
(The Dude has hereby named this formation the “Stonehenge” formation)
-SM Land Speeders can act as “spotters” for Whirlwinds, giving them unlimited range. It was originally rumoured that these Speeders would be unarmed, but this has been refuted, and they are supposedly regular Speeders with HB or MM..
-Space Marine Council with individual members supplying bonuses such as flanking manoeuvres etc.
-Marines may be able to take 3 vindicators as a unit allowing them to target the same point, using the special 10 inch template.
-Abbaddon may be able to take a very large Terminator retinue
-Tau may get a formation of one command unit, and body guard. 3 Crisis Suit units, and a number of Stealth Suits.
-Special Markerlight options for squadrons of 3 + hammerheads
-Eldar "Windrider Host" composed mostly of jetbikes/vypers. Supposedly grants a pre-game redeployment ability
-Bonesinger may get rules
-3 Wave Serpents may combine their energy fields to reduce incoming fire to a maximum of S:7. Whilst some thought this was a similar field to the Necron “Stonehenge” ability, The Dude thinks the ability will apply only to shots aimed at the Serpents themselves.
-Ork "Kult of Speed" similar to Eldar Windrider Host in that once during the game the entire formation (possibly 30 bikes) can redeploy to ANYWHERE on the board.
These options might come in the form of stratagems
Sneak peak shown:
Some say it is 1 inch larger than the FW one all round. Some say 1 inch smaller.
Reports tell of 3 additional variants:
- Different turret option (some say Yarrick’s personal Baneblade)
- Chaos (some say Nurgle specific)
The hull has supposedly been designed with empty sections to make it easier to convert
Has been listed as US$95 for an October release
A large kit by Aly Morrison. Reportedly 8 Sprues
Supposedly put on hold until they can work out how to get it onto fewer sprues.
The usual “problems in production” excuse. Expect to see as a later release maybe with the Blood Angels or Space Wolves Codex whenever they come.
Supposedly there are 3 options
Not much known. A possible future release.
A model was seen, but never intended for release. It was made to test the large model production systems.
It’s a possible future release if sales of other large models are good, as they already have it scanned into the computer.
Bregalad has put forward a list of other possible Apocalypse releases:
-Imperial Guard commissars (3 different poses) for an October release
-Imperial Guard Ogryn Although the model shown in the link is obviously a Bone ‘Ead, there are supposedly more than this coming in October.
-New Necron Lord with ressurrection orb. Listed as US$15
-Bonesinger (or Farseer?) on jetbike.
-New Space Marine Masters of the Chapter. Listed as US$35 for an October release
-New Space Marine Veterans. Listed as US$30 for an October release
-Ork Mek with Super Shoota
And some rumoured (far) future releases:
-Eldar Revenant Titan
Space Marine Battle Company
Includes parts for the following:
- 6 Tactical squads
- 2 Assault Squads
- 2 Devastator Squads
- Command Squad
- Land Raider
- "Extra stuff" like decals
comes in a big wooden crate
Possibility of a bigger, direct-only box containing the sprues for 400+ marines but with just the sprues.
There is also talk of other Multi-tank/big-model boxes such as:
3 Basilisks or 3 Hammerheads possibly priced at 3 for the price of 2
6 or more Ork Dreads or Kans
These would more than likely be “Direct Only” deals.
Basically life sucks, there is only war and you're probably gonna get eaten by Tyranids, have fun.
Looks like GW is really going all out with this release. Looks awesome.
S7+ ignores armor saves? Way to break the 40k AP system, GJ! Seriously, that would require a lot of rebalancing and testing of shooting mechanics than the simplification is worth IMO.
Autocannons just became my new favourite heavy weapon. :yes:
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I don't believe the money saving tank box sets. It'd be beautiful, hence it can't possibly happen.
Other than that, it all seems rather overwhelming. And I didn't see enough stuff for the SMurfs, GW normally release twice as much for them.
Nothing for dark eldar then oh well. Still, no FoC means more ravagers than can possibly be shot down.
If I've replied, i've probably used Italics...
www.goodbyeboltgun.blogspot.com - Some of my stuff.
As pointed out in a different thread, (in the rules development forum, I think) str 7+ weapons ignoring armor saves causes large problems with high-str template weapons. The best example of this would be Nidzilla lists with those str 8 blasts taking out entire SM tac squads. Now imagine that with the new no-FOC rules and you have a line of Nid MCs blasting anything and everything from here to never-never land, each requiring at least three wounds (from anti-tank weapons) to stop. The only benefit is that the weapons that have a good chance of hurting the Nids would probably also ignore saves.
The answer to the all-Nid-MC-blast-army-of-doom is, probably, an Armored Complany, which would be easy enough to do build with the no-FOC rules. This in turn is taken down by the anti-tank-weapons-in-every-squad army, which is taken down by the I-have-more-models-than-you-do-bullets army and so on and so forth.
I mean, think of the things you could do with no FOC. An IG Lemann horde backed by Basilisks, with lascannons and ordinance everywhere. An Eldar Flying circus with a whole bunch of fire prisms and falcons (if someone can tell me where it says you can't link together say, five prisms, and auto-penetrate landraiders with a str 13 ap 1 (or -2) blast?) I don't know enough to say if this is legal or effective, but take a Necron lord with the telepory-thingy with every squad for the most mobile army ever. A landraider crusaider rush the likes of which has never been seen before, carrying Emperor-knows-what.
This last one would scare the crap out of the Nidzilla list. 'Congradulations, you have more blast templates than god, all of which ignore my saves. Too bad you only hurt anything I have on a six. Well, thats at least until I rush you with my powerfisted terminators.'
The end result is that while 'str 8 ignoring saves' causes one set of balance issues, the no-FOC causes some more, the new Super Heavy rules even more, and so all we can hope is that by the end, everything is still going to be balanced more or less like it is now. By that I mean to point out that most balance issues either come down to rock-paper-scissors in the IW vs Skimmer of Doom vs Nidzilla vs min-max las/plas etc. or two all-comers lists made by reasonable people going at it. Hopefully, people taking the time to play a 3000+ point game will try and make it fun, and not exploit it to no end. Personally, I think it would be fun to put down every model I own WYSIWYG against my friend doing the same thing, and see what happens. I think it might be one of those situations where when the dust finally settles, we'll look back and say 'It looked like a good idea at the time.' Happy gaming.
I really doubt that this book will totally change the way 40k will be played, rather it will be a set of alternate rules that let you play large scale games on a bit of a faster pace.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
just to clear a few things up. these are rumors not facts so don't get to hyped.
i really doubt that S7+ weps will insta kill that would be just stupid. e.g i have 3 carnifexs all with barbed stranglers and venom cannons and i decide that the big bloodthirster in front of me is a problem. hits on 4's wounds on 3's or 2's insta kill. opps i just lost a 200pt model. or a termi squad there goes 300pts down the drain. the chance of this rumor being true is pretty slim. also 18" flamer uh does that seem just a bit to big. and no FOC is bogus it would completey stuff the game they wouldn't do that. seriously with out FOC i can just go oh let's run loads of fexes which means sought of means 20 in a 3000+ game.
the apocalypse rules will however provide super heavy units for all armies and games are with a points cost of 3000+.
Never broken, Never fallen, Courage out of fear.
"Those who give up often do not realize just how close they are to success when they give up."
From what I have been told by GW staffers, there will not be an FOC as it stands now. Instead of squads, you will end up taking "detachments" of models (for an SM example, one detachment could consist of two tac squads and an assault squad, or two Predators, etc)... basically you would take pre-set combinations as a single choice. Less emphasis on kitting out individual models, and more emphasis on overall strategic decisions.
Whether it actually turns out this way, we wont know until more details come out officially.
Originally Posted by Montford981